CBC-1 vs EC-1118 for Bottle Conditioning

[Cloud Surfer]

I have a 12.5% ABV RIS that spent 4 weeks in primary and 6 months conditioning in keg at 10C. Time to bottle soon. A previous RIS I made never carbed, so my experience with these numbers is the yeast is too old, too tired and has dropped out by the time it’s been through primary, conditioning and then into bottle.

Anyway, I will be adding yeast at bottling. My question is which of these two should I use. My guess is, it won’t matter at all, but I thought I’d ask before going ahead.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

CBC-1 is specifically for that purpose.
EC-1118 is a wine yeast.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

Thanks, yes I know that. EC-1118 has a long history of being used for bottle conditioning and has some advantages over CBC-1 like alcohol tolerance. The question goes out to those who have actually used these yeasts for bottle conditioning/carbing as I’m keen on your experience with them.

 

[JimRausch]

I've used CBC-1 to reyeast on batches that I've lagered/aged for over 3 months. Before discovering this strain, I would actually use the cheapest dry yeast I could find- Muntons. Both have done the job. Cbc-1 is supposed to be flavor neutral where the Munton's wouldn't, but the low amounts(<1/4 packet per 5G) used shouldn't make much difference. I've used EC-118 in a couple meads and have been impressed with it's quick fermentations and especially quick floculation and drop. Haven't used it for reyeasting 'aged' beers.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

Thanks Jim, good stuff.

 

[cactusgarrett]

I religiously use CBC-1 for re-yeasting my sours when bottling, as most are barrel aged for at least a year. I use the "standard prescribed" amount of ~2g per 5gal. I used to perform an acid shock starter to do so to hedge my bets, as many of my sours contained large amounts of lactic acid and were fairly high ABV. However, I've since gone away from that, as it was a relatively intensive process, and at the recommendation of various pro brewers (I can't remember which at the moment), just used GoFerm during the rehydration process . With either process I've never noticed off-flavors related to it's use or in conjunction with it's use (THP for example).

Tl;dr: CBC-1 works well in harsh conditions (long storage, high ABV, high acid) but i've only used it in conjunction with GoFerm for that.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

Thanks for the info. I’ve decided to order some CBC-1 and use that at bottling.

 

[MikeCo]

I've had good success with CBC-1 as well. For a high gravity beer like yours, I would add more than 2g for 5 gallons. I usually use 4g for 5 gallons. I add it to a small amount of water to rehydrate it into a slurry so it mixes well into the beer.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

I've had good success with CBC-1 as well. For a high gravity beer like yours, I would add more than 2g for 5 gallons. I usually use 4g for 5 gallons. I add it to a small amount of water to rehydrate it into a slurry so it mixes well into the beer.

I did some numbers and thought I would use 3g. What is the ABV of the beers you use 4g for? I guess the only downside of extra yeast is a touch more sediment in the bottom of the bottle.

 

[MikeCo]

The ABVs have been 7% to 9.5%. I haven’t noticed excessive yeast sediment in the bottles.

 

[Beer666]

From what i remember i CB1 only goes up to 10% so i ended up using ec118 for my imperials as they are all over 12% ABV. I used to add a few grains to each bottle but next time i will make a starter and use a 3ml of slurry for each bottle. Hopefully speed up the process.

 

[MikeCo]

From what i remember i CB1 only goes up to 10% so i ended up using ec118 for my imperials as they are all over 12% ABV.

Check the CBC-1 datasheet:
https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp...3/TDS_LPS_BREWINGYEAST_CBC-1_ENG_8.5x11-1.pdf
It's good to 18% for primary and 12-14% for refermentation.

It also says:
"For bottle condition-ing, a pitch rate of 10g/hL is recommended. More stressful fermentations such as high gravity, high adjunct or high acidity may require higher pitch rates and additional nutrients to ensure a healthy fermentation. "

 

[cactusgarrett]

10g/hL is recommended

Doing the math: that's 1.9 g/5gal

 

[MikeCo]

Doing the math: that's 1.9 g/5gal

Don't forget the disclaimer in the data sheet.

"More stressful fermentations such as high gravity, high adjunct or high acidity may require higher pitch rates and additional nutrients to ensure a healthy fermentation."

At 12.5%, I would personally pitch double the recommendation. I don't see any harm in it other than the small cost of the additional 2g of yeast.

 

[beersk]

Crapola, I used a whole packet for my recent batch of Imperial Porter that was 9.5%. So, I can expect a ton of sediment then?

 

[MikeCo]

When I have used it, the sediment has been fairly tightly packed on the bottom of the bottle. I think if you pour carefully, you should be fine. I've used and entire pack of liquid yeast (1056) to bottle a 4.5 gallon batch before, and I didn't notice more sediment than when I used a lesser amount.

 

[Cloud Surfer]

I think pitching 4g is good advice so I’ll go for that.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

CBC-1 is specifically for that purpose.
EC-1118 is a wine yeast.

Except CBC is a wine yeast as well.

See eg p60 of the Nov 2018 Brewers Journal, which is a thinkly-disguised advertorial by Andy Patterson of Lallemand UK, where he calls CBC-1 a champagne yeast.

One of the mead guys on HBT has suggested that it makes a mead that is very similar to D21, a red wine yeast from the Languedoc.

 

[Beer666]

Check the CBC-1 datasheet:
https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/wp...3/TDS_LPS_BREWINGYEAST_CBC-1_ENG_8.5x11-1.pdf
It's good to 18% for primary and 12-14% for refermentation.

It also says:
"For bottle condition-ing, a pitch rate of 10g/hL is recommended. More stressful fermentations such as high gravity, high adjunct or high acidity may require higher pitch rates and additional nutrients to ensure a healthy fermentation. "

Ah i do apologise i must of remembered that wrong. It did not carbonate my stout though but reading this thread seems like i used far too little.

EDIT; Just checked the fridge and realised i was using safale F2. At least i know about the Danstar yeast now. Thanks for correcting me.