Can pilsners be called so if they contain malts other than pilsner?

[Rev2010]

Never brewed one yet but am planning to soon. I'm not planning to use any crystal malts but I got curious since I've seen many recipes have various other malts like Munich, Vienna, and various crystal malts in them. As far as I recall reading pilsners are supposed to contain 100% pilsner malt no? I know we're free to make anything we want, I'm just wondering if you can still truly call it a pilsner if you use other malts.


Rev.

 

[kh54s10]

The Pilsen brewery recruited the Bavarian brewer Josef Groll (1813–1887) who, using new techniques and paler malts, presented his first batch of pale lager on 5 October 1842. The combination of brighter malt prepared by English technology, Pilsen's remarkably soft water, local Saaz noble hops from nearby Žatec and Bavarian-style lagering produced a clear, golden beer that was regarded as a sensation. Groll returned to Vilshofen three years later in 1845, and there later inherited his father's brewery.

From Wikipedia. Note the word "malts"

Other than that IDK.

 

[Smellyglove]

A pilsner is a pale crisp lager with robust hop profile from noble hops, sort of. You can use whatever malts you'd want if you accomplish that.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Many if not most true German Pils have about 5-8% of ~10L crystal malt in them, or so I've heard. I always add crystal malt in this range.

As for Czech Pilsner, if you are not going to decoction mash, you will need to add melanoidin and perhaps some crystal and Vienna or low Lovibond Munich if you expect to achieve a semblance of the flavor profile of the style.

 

[Smellyglove]

..or boil it longer

 

[dmtaylor]

It's your beer. Do whatever the hell you want. I think I've made "pilsners" with no pilsner malt before. It tasted good so I drank it.

 

[kh54s10]

Another question is should it be called a Pilsner if it wasn't brewed in Pilsen? With Pilsen water?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

..or boil it longer

I wonder if rendering some down to nigh on syrup and then adding it back, as would be done for a Scotch Ale, would be an appropriate means of capturing some of the decoction like flavor?

 

[Lefou]

For 5 gal of basic German Pils, mash 8.5lb Pilsner in soft water and boil your wort 60min with 2.5oz of Saaz hops (3.4AAU) for 60 minutes.
70% efficiency estimated for the recipe here.
For authenticity, use a German lager yeast. Weyermann or Avangard malt, WLP830 or WLP838 as liquid yeast. S-23, 34/70, or S-189 dry yeasts will do. Ferment at 65F or under, carb, and chill for a week before drinking.

It's a very basic recipe.
The BJCP color ranges from 2-5 SRM, so you could add a measure of Vienna, light Munich, wheat,or even Carapils to alter the color and gravity a bit but if you're picky about the ingredients, just go with 100% Pilsner barley and make it easy.

Later on, you can do a Bohemian Pils or an American Pils, just adjust the water and hops a bit.

 

[SoCal-Doug]

Many pilsners in Europe also contain malts like Vienna and Munich. Call it whatever you like.

 

[Yooper]

One of my Bohemian pilsners is 90% German pilsner and 10% carapils, with all Saaz hops. It's really good.

The funny thing is that my friend Phil won the "Pilsner Urquell Clone" contest with this recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/ocas-lishky-pilsner-urquell-clone.333411/

Now, look at the recipe! It isn't anything at all like PU should be. However, they didn't see the recipe, as it was a taste test with some artisan license. But he got to go to Prague and the whole nine yards, and it won second place the following year!

When I was in Prague and Germany this summer I had lots of different pilsners, and they were all similar- but also different as well. My favorites may not be your favorites- and most of them do use pilsner malt. But some don't, and they are ALL pilsners, even the ones made in Germany. (Gasp from the Plzn folks!).

 

[Wayne1]

Are you brewing it for competition or for your own enjoyment?
For competition the 2015 BJCP rules state :
Characteristic Ingredients: Continental Pilsner malt,
German hop varieties (especially Saazer-type varieties such as
Tettnanger, Hallertauer, and Spalt for taste and aroma; Saaz is
less common), German lager yeast.

If you want to compete, follow the rules. If you want to have fun, make what you want

 

[passedpawn]

Are you brewing it for competition or for your own enjoyment?
For competition the 2015 BJCP rules state :
Characteristic Ingredients: Continental Pilsner malt,
German hop varieties (especially Saazer-type varieties such as
Tettnanger, Hallertauer, and Spalt for taste and aroma; Saaz is
less common), German lager yeast.

If you want to compete, follow the rules. If you want to have fun, make what you want

I don't think the ingredients matter in competition as long as you hit the target characteristics for that style. From the 2015 BJCP Style Guidelines, in the section where they explain their characteristic ingredients:

Not every beer is going to be made the same way or using the same ingredients; we are simply describing what is typical, not what is required.​

 

[Qhrumphf]

Never mind. Stupid app.

 

[Qhrumphf]

BJCP guidelines aren't rules. The key word there is *characteristic* ingredients. You can use anything you want. The judges won't know what you used. THAT is actually a rule for sanctioning.

I can see and have used 100% Pils malt in a German Pils with a strong direct fire boil (ie propane). Czech or American may need some other grains. And less intense boil methods may for a German Pils as well.

 

[JohnSand]

I wonder if rendering some down to nigh on syrup and then adding it back, as would be done for a Scotch Ale, would be an appropriate means of capturing some of the decoction like flavor?

I've read postings of that method, and inadvertently done it myself while raising mash temps. I've never done a traditional decoction, but I think you get similar effects.