Can I make "bitter water" to add hops after the fact?

[olie]

So, funny* story...

-----
* It'd be funnier if it happened to someone else Anyway...


I made a double-batch (actually: scaled up to 12gal for my 1/2bbl fermentor) of my widely-liked "Dirty Blonde" Ale, but didn't double the bittering hops. What I'm left with is a beer that "only a brewer could love". And, while I might think of some use for it (marinade an entire pig?), now I'm curious if it's possible to boil up, say, a quart or 1/2 gallon of water, add the missing hops, boil for the designated times, and then just pour that into the beer.

Sure, it'll water-down the beer a little, but it's a qt into 12 gallons, so 1/48th the total volume. It's 6.83% as it stands so, if it ends up closer to 6%, I'm ok with that.

Does "bittering-hops syrup" work?

Any other ideas?

Thanks!

~Ted

 

[Hermit]

Brewing is cooking. Many paths to where you are going. That said, what do you have to lose by trying? Remember that the amount of boil water and time make a difference. You might have to add a ton more hops to get your bitter water to the point you need it. Trying to boil it down to make it more condensed could have negative flavor impacts. I'd try and get the highest alpha hops available. When adding it to the beer I'd wait an hour between addition and tasting to make sure the flavors are distributed/melded.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

It's called a hop tea, and yes, it should work (never tried myself though).

IMO, your best option would be to get hold of some bittering hop extract - pour a glass of beer and add a drop of extract at a time until the bitterness is where you want it, then scale up for the entire batch.

 

[ong]

It’s worth a shot. I haven’t had great luck with adding hop teas after fermentation, but at least it’s just a blonde, so you don’t need a ton of bittering.

The other approach would be to brew a small batch of very hoppy beer and blend... maybe more work than you want to put in, though.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

https://homebrewsupplies.ca/product/2609-iso-hop-extract/

This is the product I'm talking about - isomerized hop extract (don't use the CO2 extracted oils that are meant to go in the boil). I can't find a US source though (it's in all the homebrew stores near me).

 

[guiriguiri]

I did this once and wound up syphoning out about a gallon, adding some water, boiling high alpha hops for an hour, and adding the original volume removed back to the carboy. It worked.

 

[olie]

I did this once and wound up syphoning out about a gallon, adding some water, boiling high alpha hops for an hour, and adding the original volume removed back to the carboy. It worked.

To clarify, what I have at this point is finished beer: it's in the cooler, carbonated, in a keg, ready to drink. Except for the very-un-bitter part.

When you did this, did you do it to wort or to beer?

As others said -- nothing to lose by trying. But it's also an "only get one shot at this", then I either have something drinkable or 12 gallons of garbage, so I'm trying to get as much info as possible before I try.

Thanks!

 

[lump42]

If you can't get ahold of isomerized hop extract (pre-bittered). Maybe try boiling co2 hop extract (hopshot, hopeffect, etc). You'll still have to boil them, but less risk of vegetal flavors and no/less material to settle out in kegs.

Adventures in Homebrewing https://www.homebrewing.org/Hop-Effect-Hop-Resin-Extract_c_626.html

Yakima Valley Hops https://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/Hop_Extract_3mL_Hop_Shot_p/extracthopshot3ml.htm

 

[Northern_Brewer]

As discussed above, alpha extract is ideal for this situation but be aware it's very potent - with the one I use, 1 drop in 5 US gallons adds about 3 IBU so you'd want less than 1ml depending on what your target IBU is.

Hop teas will work, but be aware that utilisation isn't the same in plain water, it can be a bit hit and miss getting it exactly right but it will be in the right ball park. Adding to a sample is the way to go.

 

[guiriguiri]

Yeah, when I did that, it was just 1 day after adding yeast, so before significant fermentation had occurred.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, ~14 years ago my first "for the wife" wheat beer was so insipidly bittered even she said it needed some help.
I boiled up a half ounce of Hallertau in two cups of water, strained it through a coffee filter, added it to the keg with a gentle stir. It totally saved that beer...

Cheers!

 

[isomerization]

While I’ve never tried, I’d vote for the boil hops in water route. Then dose a 12 oz pour in manner that you can scale up to the whole batch. I’d try to make the hop “tea” as concentrated as possible for minimal impact on the final batch (outside of bittering).

 

[Beer666]

I can vouch for the isomerised oil. I have made beer with zero hops and just that and it was good. I also boil hops in water sometimes to add more bitterness.

 

[Vale71]

While I’ve never tried, I’d vote for the boil hops in water route. Then dose a 12 oz pour in manner that you can scale up to the whole batch. I’d try to make the hop “tea” as concentrated as possible for minimal impact on the final batch (outside of bittering).

Just beware that if it's too concentrated extraction rate will suffer and at some point you'll succumb to the law of diminishing returns. In this respect boiling CO2 extract is beneficial, there's no vegetable matter and extraction will be much higher even if highly concentrated.

 

[WestMichBrewer]

While I’ve never tried, I’d vote for the boil hops in water route. Then dose a 12 oz pour in manner that you can scale up to the whole batch. I’d try to make the hop “tea” as concentrated as possible for minimal impact on the final batch (outside of bittering).

I've done this with an underbittered lager after tapping the keg. I pulled some beer from the keg and added more water (need to add water to offset boil-off) and boiled the hops in it on the stove for ~30 minutes.
Afterwards I depressurized the keg, poured in the bittered liquid and pressurized.

 

[Beer666]

You can boil hops in water, you do not need wort to do it. I learned this from @Miraculix (cheers) and it works really well. Boiling some hops in a liter of water is a great way to increase the IBU's.

 

[MadLuke]

hey everyone. I am gonna revive this thread rather than creating a new one) with one technical question on use of hop extract.

Background:
Some weeks ago I have started a batch of Double IPA, this time trying Taiheke and Amarillo combo. Aiming around 8.5%. However, when doing calcs, I must have had a brain lag, and the final IBU might be around 50. Upsy, it needs to go up. To get out of this easy, I have bought a bit of 63% AA CO2 Hop extract. The idea is to boil it with a tiny bit of water and then there it goes into the wort and hooray to bottles. But now I am trying to figure out the dosage.

Question:
When reading how to calculate the volume, the advice was "use normal IBU calculator, just use 63 as the value for AA". Sweet, but the calculator still assumes around 20-40% utilization, even for pellets. When using hop extract from a syringe, should I force 100% utilization in the calculator, or does the 40 utilization still apply for some reason?

 

[Miraculix]

You can boil hops in water, you do not need wort to do it. I learned this from @Miraculix (cheers) and it works really well. Boiling some hops in a liter of water is a great way to increase the IBU's.

Yep, did this many times. Good thing is, plain water can solve much more ibus than wort, but at some point I'm sure you'll be hitting a wall and cannot solve any more. I had great results with using about 1/10 of the final volume as water to boil the hops on it. I even managed to overbitter a beer this way, so be careful or use the alpha concentrate mentioned before.

 

[Vale71]

If you're just boiling it in a tiny bit of water you might get, at best, 3-4% actual utilization. You'll basically be throwing most of the extract away as it will not isomerize and not become soluble. What you need is pre-isomerized hop extract, CO2 extract still needs to be added during boil.

 

[Upstate12866]

Check out David Heath Hombrewing on YouTube, he explains hop tea nicely. The jist is:

1. Water temp determines bitterness. Near boiling water for bitterness, 150 F for aroma and flavor. You can do two separate jars of hop tea if you like, he suggests 1 liter each but you may be able to use 500-750 ml ok.

2. He insists you let it cool naturally to get the best results.

3. He actually says adding during or after fermentation like dry hopping is the best way to retain hop flavor. So you're situation doesn't seem too bad at all for this method.

I do hop tea method occasionally. Keep in mind I don't make hoppy beers and mainly want to avoid long boil times of gallons of liquid. I can attest that there is some hop flavor in that thar tea, and if anything you'll find it lighter and milder. In other words don't sweat it because it won't blow up your beer with bitterness. I would add that 1/2 portion you forgot into two jars and let it be done.

 

[Miraculix]

Check out David Heath Hombrewing on YouTube, he explains hop tea nicely. The jist is:

1. Water temp determines bitterness. Near boiling water for bitterness, 150 F for aroma and flavor. You can do two separate jars of hop tea if you like, he suggests 1 liter each but you may be able to use 500-750 ml ok.

2. He insists you let it cool naturally to get the best results.

3. He actually says adding during or after fermentation like dry hopping is the best way to retain hop flavor. So you're situation doesn't seem too bad at all for this method.

I do hop tea method occasionally. Keep in mind I don't make hoppy beers and mainly want to avoid long boil times of gallons of liquid. I can attest that there is some hop flavor in that thar tea, and if anything you'll find it lighter and milder. In other words don't sweat it because it won't blow up your beer with bitterness. I would add that 1/2 portion you forgot into two jars and let it be done.

If you use enough hops and boil it long enough, you can easily create massive bitterness in the beer. It's all about time and amount. I once heavily overbittered a raw Pilsener with just 2 litres of hop tea in a 20l batch of beer.

 

[Upstate12866]

My assumption with hop tea is to follow the regular recipe amount with hops and to follow Heath's suggestion to simply add water to a jar, thereby limiting the time at peak temperature. But Im no expert on the practice. Did your recipe use a large amount of hops? My 2.5 gal pils recipe calls for just under an ounce of Perle or Saaz type hops total. I'm not a hop head so my big hop pale ales may have 1.5 oz in 2.5 gal. It's been safe for me in those amounts but I don't have much experience with more hoppy brews.

 

[Miraculix]

My assumption with hop tea is to follow the regular recipe amount with hops and to follow Heath's suggestion to simply add water to a jar, thereby limiting the time at peak temperature. But Im no expert on the practice. Did your recipe use a large amount of hops? My 2.5 gal pils recipe calls for just under an ounce of Perle or Saaz type hops total. I'm not a hop head so my big hop pale ales may have 1.5 oz in 2.5 gal. It's been safe for me in those amounts but I don't have much experience with more hoppy brews.

The thing is, the plain water solves more ibus than wort so you have to compensate for that, otherwise you will end up with more bitterness in your beer, if you follow the standard amounts and boiling times. But it's easy to calculate. Brewers friend's ibu calculator accounts for that. Just hack in a gravity of 1.0 and the final volume. Not the final volume of the tea, but of the beer plus the tea. That way you can calculate it close enough, based on my experience.

 

[Upstate12866]

Just for OP's clarification, we seem to be talking about two different methods. Heath's method (and mine) involves no real boil time. So it will not impart extreme bitterness, at least in my experience. If you do an actual boil, then yes, low gravity and longer boil times will both invite more bitterness to enter the water. Bittering compounds are formed from hop oils at high temps, 180+ I believe. Water volume is a third factor in my notes but I can't say confidently how much that matters from my experience. So be aware that an actual boil requires some extra thought. I think that calculator would be a great tool for that good call

 

[MadLuke]

If you're just boiling it in a tiny bit of water you might get, at best, 3-4% actual utilization. You'll basically be throwing most of the extract away as it will not isomerize and not become soluble. What you need is pre-isomerized hop extract, CO2 extract still needs to be added during boil.

Sorry, should have made myself clear. I was hoping to boil a bit of water with the extract for regular 60 min and then dump it to the fermenter. I am happy with the boil, just don't want to increase the wort volume too much. So what you're saying that with little water, you will still get low utilisation because of low water volume?

My impresion was the utilisation decrease with less water is because the hops will just keep more of the AA in then and you throw them away. If the whole extract goes into fermenter, this effect should not be there. But I might be missing something.

 

[Vale71]

Sorry, should have made myself clear. I was hoping to boil a bit of water with the extract for regular 60 min and then dump it to the fermenter. I am happy with the boil, just don't want to increase the wort volume too much. So what you're saying that with little water, you will still get low utilisation because of low water volume?

My impresion was the utilisation decrease with less water is because the hops will just keep more of the AA in then and you throw them away. If the whole extract goes into fermenter, this effect should not be there. But I might be missing something.

Alpha-acids need to dissolve in water first and then they isomerize through heat during the boil. Since they have limited solubility only a small amount dissolves and then it has to isomerize to free up space for more acids to dissolve and so on and so forth. This means that the rate of isomerization is limited by the alpha-acids to water (or, in the case of a standard process, wort) ratio. If you try and dissolve a lot of acids in a small amount of water your isomerization rate will be minuscule so that most of the acids will remain in a non-isomerized state and will be lost, resulting in incredibly low utilization. That's where pre-isomerized extract comes into play. Since it is pre-isomerized using a chemical process it dissolves readily in wort and does not require any heat application resulting in 100% utilization.

 

[TheMadKing]

hey everyone. I am gonna revive this thread rather than creating a new one) with one technical question on use of hop extract.

Background:
Some weeks ago I have started a batch of Double IPA, this time trying Taiheke and Amarillo combo. Aiming around 8.5%. However, when doing calcs, I must have had a brain lag, and the final IBU might be around 50. Upsy, it needs to go up. To get out of this easy, I have bought a bit of 63% AA CO2 Hop extract. The idea is to boil it with a tiny bit of water and then there it goes into the wort and hooray to bottles. But now I am trying to figure out the dosage.

Question:
When reading how to calculate the volume, the advice was "use normal IBU calculator, just use 63 as the value for AA". Sweet, but the calculator still assumes around 20-40% utilization, even for pellets. When using hop extract from a syringe, should I force 100% utilization in the calculator, or does the 40 utilization still apply for some reason?

Another option since you have a DIPA
at 50 IBU is to dry hop it with a NEIPA size charge, say 6 oz of hops like Citra or motueka. It will increase the perceived bitterness due to myrcene and increase the hop flavor dramatically

 

[Miraculix]

Alpha-acids need to dissolve in water first and then they isomerize through heat during the boil. Since they have limited solubility only a small amount dissolves and then it has to isomerize to free up space for more acids to dissolve and so on and so forth. This means that the rate of isomerization is limited by the alpha-acids to water (or, in the case of a standard process, wort) ratio. If you try and dissolve a lot of acids in a small amount of water your isomerization rate will be minuscule so that most of the acids will remain in a non-isomerized state and will be lost, resulting in incredibly low utilization. That's where pre-isomerized extract comes into play. Since it is pre-isomerized using a chemical process it dissolves readily in wort and does not require any heat application resulting in 100% utilization.

From personal experience, I can tell that about 10% of the final volume as water is enough to get the desired ibus into solution. I have only done it with hops and not with the extract, but theoretically it should work the same way. The alpha acid dissolve much better in plain water without the proteins of the wort in solution.

 

[MadLuke]

Another option since you have a DIPA
at 50 IBU is to dry hop it with a NEIPA size charge, say 6 oz of hops like Citra or motueka. It will increase the perceived bitterness due to myrcene and increase the hop flavor dramatically

Gee, thats a good idea. I was hoping to dryhop it anyway, so might go for a dryhop nuke instead. Plus Amarillo and Taiheke have both pretty high mycerene anyway.

Alpha-acids need to dissolve in water first and then they isomerize through heat during the boil. Since they have limited solubility only a small amount dissolves and then it has to isomerize to free up space for more acids to dissolve and so on and so forth. This means that the rate of isomerization is limited by the alpha-acids to water (or, in the case of a standard process, wort) ratio. If you try and dissolve a lot of acids in a small amount of water your isomerization rate will be minuscule so that most of the acids will remain in a non-isomerized state and will be lost, resulting in incredibly low utilization. That's where pre-isomerized extract comes into play. Since it is pre-isomerized using a chemical process it dissolves readily in wort and does not require any heat application resulting in 100% utilization.

Live and learn. Thanks for the explanation!