Caffeine overdose, allergy, or?? Input Please!

[krbrumma]

Ok so I made a Carmel Mocha Braggot, and decided to test it about 4 months premature of aging.

Background:

Well, it's got 12 pounds of honey and a full size can of coffee in about 5 gallons. The coffee was cold brewed for 2 days @ 3 gallons

Then combined with 5 pounds of honey and wort, stout style. So some Carafa III.

then once to the fermenter i added the rest of the honey. sat for 2 months.

Issue:

When we (me and a friend ) tested it, after about 2 cups my friends neck was blushing like crazy, and the next day he said he felt weird and partially awful for a while the next day.

I asked him his allergy's and he said pollen, grass clippings etc... So honey?

but he described the awful feeling as almost groggy so i was thinking since he drank 5 cups, 1 cup most likely having the equivalent of 3 cups coffee, so assuming 1500mg of caffeine, the next day might have been caffeine withdrawal?

Any input is appreciated.

 

[BigB]

Not to be a smart ass, but tell him to go to a doctor for medical diagnosis, not an internet beer forum.

 

[theredben]

How big is a "full size" can of coffee?

EDIT: Has he ever been to an allergist? Those people know their stuff.

 

[krbrumma]

34.5 oz can.

It's not so much as needing to go to a doctor, rather to see if it's a problem with the brew.. ie if my friends drink a bunch of this, then feel like crap the next day :/

 

[ajdelange]

Raw honey does contain a lot of pollen - it's all over the bees' bodies when they return to the hive. Now this filtered 'til it's clear as water stuff probably doesn't contain as much.

There is even lore among the health food whackos that one should eat local raw honey in order to aclimate the immune system to the local pollen thus preventing allergy attacks from that source.

 

[remilard]

Raw honey does contain a lot of pollen - it's all over the bees' bodies when they return to the hive. Now this filtered 'til it's clear as water stuff probably doesn't contain as much.

There is even lore among the health food whackos that one should eat local raw honey in order to aclimate the immune system to the local pollen thus preventing allergy attacks from that source.

That was my first thought but the stuff I've bought for mead from the common sources (Millers, Drapers, Northern Brewer, The Bee Folks) while not heat treated is all pretty dang clear.

So I guess the question for the OP is, what did the honey look like?

I can't see this being caffeine related.

 

[350_Malibu]

I asked him his allergy's and he said pollen, grass clippings etc... So honey?

but he described the awful feeling as almost groggy so i was thinking since he drank 5 cups, 1 cup most likely having the equivalent of 3 cups coffee, so assuming 1500mg of caffeine, the next day might have been caffeine withdrawal?

1 cup = 3 cups of coffee = 15 cups of coffee.

Did no one else catch this?

That is a lot of caffeine, even for an avid coffee drinker. If your buddy is not a regular drinker of coffee, then yes drinking that much caffeine can have ill affects on you and make you 'blush'.

Both caffeine and alcohol will make you extremely dehydrated the next day. Add the two together and bam!

Could be the honey, but could also be the combination of alcohol and caffeine, and amount he had.

 

[krbrumma]

So I guess the question for the OP is, what did the honey look like?

I can't see this being caffeine related.

Well, the honey was not super clear, it was actually store bought (meijer) so I can see that as a mistake on my part.

As for the not being caffeine, i still have a hunch towards it. But he is a fairly avid coffee drinker.... hmm

Well, I'm not gonna stop drinking it... so i suppose i could try duplicating the results and drink a bunch! :rockin:

I'll update with results as soon as i can

 

[Dude71]

Being a noob in the beer world, I feel I can offer up some good info about the caffeine we're talking about here. An average 8 ounce cup of coffee has 105-145mg of caffeine. in a 34.5 oz can of coffee there are 4.6 gallons of coffee. Because there were 5 gallons of beer, there wasn't quite a 1:1 ratio of coffee to beverage. So really your friend had a little less than 1 serving of coffee in each cup of beer.

Now, at five cups, he still had about 500-600mg of caffeine and 250mg is considered a "caffeine intoxication" characterized by trembling hands, flushed complexion, and muscle twitching. Your friend didn't really overdose. You have to get up to levels of 100mg per kg of body weight to be considered in overdose of caffeine. So like 5000mg at least.

Coming from a caffeine junky (I drink about 5 cups of coffee before walking out the door most mornings, but I weigh 260 so that's like 2 or 3 for most people) I'd say he probably was just caffeine intoxicated. Depending on his normal coffee intake and his weight, it may have been something else. If he drank it in the evening, the feeling sick the next day can still be a symptom. Like any stimulant, it results in a crash after it wears off. Its also a diuretic so he probably went to sleep dehydrated from the alcohol and the caffeine at the same time. Resulting of course in a hangover.

Caffeine withdrawals in most people are the result of prolonged exposure making the arteries in the brain a little stiff via expansion. When caffeine is not there to increase the blood pressure, the veins that were stretched shrink a little more than usual and you get a headache because you're not getting quite as much blood flow as you normally would.

Hope that helps,

Rob

 

[theredben]

Does anyone have any reference for how much caffeine leaches out when it is added to beer at room temp? I am guessing far less then when 190* water is added to make coffee.

 

[Dude71]

he said he cold brewed it for a couple days in 3 gallons of water, so he basically added coffee to the wort.