burnt Oak aging mead and cider

[Meadiator]

I just wanted to get a good idea of how it changes the flavor when you age either of these beverages on toasted oak blocks. Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

[Matrix4b]

There are various levels of toast. Light: barely toasted, Medium: A bit of a golden color, Heavy: Burnt blackended peices. I have used them all. The Heavy Toast imparts a smokey flavor that many drinkers that like scotch love. I must say that I was supprised. The Medium imparts a lightly carmelly flavor. The Light doesn't impart much flavor, a light fruity hint. From My experience:

Light: Great for smoothing out the harshness in Melomells: Fruity meads.
Medium: Great for a more robust flavor and an earthy note such as your pumpkins and many Meglithins: Spiced Mead
Heavy: Great for your smoky meads, meads with some spice or kick, Also good for providing some body and a different taste to many meads.

I find that oaking for 3-5 weeks, 1 oz of chips in a 5-6 gal batch is all that's neccessary. It also smooths out the mead greatly.

That's the best that I got.

Matrix

 

[Meadiator]

There are various levels of toast. Light: barely toasted, Medium: A bit of a golden color, Heavy: Burnt blackended peices. I have used them all. The Heavy Toast imparts a smokey flavor that many drinkers that like scotch love. I must say that I was supprised. The Medium imparts a lightly carmelly flavor. The Light doesn't impart much flavor, a light fruity hint. From My experience:

Light: Great for smoothing out the harshness in Melomells: Fruity meads.
Medium: Great for a more robust flavor and an earthy note such as your pumpkins and many Meglithins: Spiced Mead
Heavy: Great for your smoky meads, meads with some spice or kick, Also good for providing some body and a different taste to many meads.

I find that oaking for 3-5 weeks, 1 oz of chips in a 5-6 gal batch is all that's neccessary. It also smooths out the mead greatly.

That's the best that I got.

Matrix

Thanks! That actually helps a whole lot!

One other question though, if I may. What happens with the Meade that people rack onto oak chips and leave for two years? Does it just impart even more flavor, like how they age scotch in oak barrels for at least five years?

 

[fatbloke]

Thanks! That actually helps a whole lot!

One other question though, if I may. What happens with the Meade that people rack onto oak chips and leave for two years? Does it just impart even more flavor, like how they age scotch in oak barrels for at least five years?

Many spirits have a length of time requirement. Plus spirit barrels are generally toasted much heavier than wines/meads. If you over oak a mead or wine you end up with a batch tasting like saw dust. Whereas thats less of an issue with spirits.

In fact some of the single malts use barrels that have previously had port or sherry in them. With other types its about the origin of the oak, etc etc.

 

[rgarry]

I usually get med toast/med char cubes from NB and use them in my cider. I find it helps blend the flavors really well. There is a guy on ebay that sells staves that I also buy but the toast tends to be very heavy on it (I use these for other projects). Cubes really can age quickly given the surface area compared to barrels. I add 10 cubes to my cider at 2 wks and leave for one month

 

[Zaffo]

Many spirits have a length of time requirement. Plus spirit barrels are generally toasted much heavier than wines/meads. If you over oak a mead or wine you end up with a batch tasting like saw dust. Whereas thats less of an issue with spirits.

In fact some of the single malts use barrels that have previously had port or sherry in them. With other types its about the origin of the oak, etc etc.

Oak does have a limit as to how long it will actually impart flavor. Most barrels cannot be reused, unless there is a desire to impart the flavor of the previous spirit into the new spirit (as Fatbloke states above). Barrel aging also slowly adds oxygen and allows evaporation, which affects the flavors in ways that oak chips cannot.

So, leaving chips or cubes in a wine for years will not add flavor indefinitely. They will impart less and less flavor as time goes by.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

Oak does have a limit as to how long it will actually impart flavor. Most barrels cannot be reused, unless there is a desire to impart the flavor of the previous spirit into the new spirit (as Fatbloke states above). Barrel aging also slowly adds oxygen and allows evaporation, which affects the flavors in ways that oak chips cannot.

So, leaving chips or cubes in a wine for years will not add flavor indefinitely. They will impart less and less flavor as time goes by.

Yup I recall seeing some online calculators for barrel age times based on number of uses. This is one of the benefits of using chips or beans, is that you use fresh ones each time so the affects can be predicted easier from batch to batch.

 

[Meadiator]

Thanks guys. I'll keep this in mind. While we're on the topic though, can I just go to my local Home Depot, grab a brick of oak, chop it up, toast it, and then rack my mead onto it? Or is there a specialized oak that I need to buy?

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

You can do that but getting the "homebrewing" chips and beans (cubes) arent particularly expensive

Edit: I got 4 oz of medium toast chips for 3.96 I think.

 

[Matrix4b]

Thanks guys. I'll keep this in mind. While we're on the topic though, can I just go to my local Home Depot, grab a brick of oak, chop it up, toast it, and then rack my mead onto it? Or is there a specialized oak that I need to buy?

I wouldn't recomend it. The reason here is you would need to make sure that the wood was cured and untreated (most woods for lumber are treated) and you dont want those chemicals in your mead. The second reason is that you would have to toast the wood yourself. You don't do that in an oven, you do that with actual fire. What kind of fire can matter because if you use a fire with a lot of gasoline in it then guess where that gassoline goes if it doesn't ALL burn, in your wood then in your mead. Then there is the amount of toast level is very hard to judge when you are doing it.

Best save yourself the hassle and since it's only an ounce or two that you would need it's not very expensive.

Also, you can leave it on the oak chips too much and end up with a big woody taste as mentioned. Chips and Cubes infuse quicker than spirals and it all infuses quicker than a barrel. Most people that age in the barrel only go a few months to a year in any case.

Glad we all could help
Matrix

 

[fatbloke]

Oak does have a limit as to how long it will actually impart flavor. Most barrels cannot be reused, unless there is a desire to impart the flavor of the previous spirit into the new spirit (as Fatbloke states above). Barrel aging also slowly adds oxygen and allows evaporation, which affects the flavors in ways that oak chips cannot.

So, leaving chips or cubes in a wine for years will not add flavor indefinitely. They will impart less and less flavor as time goes by.

Yes, of course you are entirely correct.......erm sort of.

To say about barrels not imparting flavour forever is spot on.......to say that they can't be reused is less so.

It depends on a few things. The biggest being what has been in the barrel before, but even then, if you talk to some of the cooperages, they can still remove the head, then re-skim and retoast (right down to heavy toast), usually at least once.

Its usually about how much oak is used. There's a formula for the industry standard sized barrle to work out the contact ratio area, yet if you run the numbers on one of tbese smaller barrels they tend to have a higher ratio and you need to be careful how long you leave your "product" in them.

Personally, I like to hit the garden centre, get a half barrel planter and then split it down, saw and plain the staves to clean wood then split it into "sticks" of 15cmx1cmx1cm approx.....then just toast them to light grey or "off straw". 1 per gallon is what I tend to use but if it needs more then....

A good example is Jack Daniels barrels. Part of their requirement is the raw whisky has to go into newly coopered wood, for however long. The barrels can then be retoasted/reskimmed with new heads fitted. They sell them by the container load for that.

Equally a local wood yard here, gets barrels from France that have only container a burgundy or bordeaux, I've used some bits of that cleaned up but not toasted to good effect.

Start small and test regularly, you can add more but once you get too far you're either screwed or its blending time......

 

[aellis]

resurrecting an old thread - oaking the apfelwein sounds like a good idea to me. what's the process for this? do i need to sterilize the cubes in any way, or just dump them in the carboy? my apfel's been in primary for about a month now.

 

[MarshmallowBlue]

I put them in a mug of water, Microwave it for a couple minutes. Strain the water form the chips. Add the chips in for 1-3 weeks. Dumping that initial water goes a way to removing some of the harshest oaky flavors that many would find undesirable while still leaving enough the be extracted to your batch.

 

[On-target]

THe oak at homestores will be red oak. White oak is what is used for barrels.