Building Up Lacto in Cascade Brewing Dregs

[Soilworker]

So I'm looking to make some pretty tart beers and would like to culture some lacto from some bottle dregs from Cascade Brewing since I've heard they have a pretty aggressive lacto strain. What is the best way to go about stepping up the lacto? I'm not as concerned with the other yeasts like sacch or brett and really want to build up the lacto before pitching.

Cheers!

 

[joshrosborne]

Not sure if you've seen this before, but I've found it useful:

http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2011/03/maintaining-brett-and-lacto-cultures.html

 

[BzurkoBrews]

I posted a topic on this about a week ago concerning isolating cascade's lacto culture as well. I want to find a way to separately grow the lacto or eliminate the sacc/brett from it. No one seems to have an idea of how to go about this. Maybe because no one has ever tried or succeeded at it. The best I can come up with is adding the mixed culture to starter wort that is at a temperature high enough to kill the yeast yet low enough that the lacto won't die. Maybe 120f or so? Does anyone know that these temps are? All help is very much appreciated.


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[Calder]

I posted a topic on this about a week ago concerning isolating cascade's lacto culture as well. I want to find a way to separately grow the lacto or eliminate the sacc/brett from it. No one seems to have an idea of how to go about this. Maybe because no one has ever tried or succeeded at it. The best I can come up with is adding the mixed culture to starter wort that is at a temperature high enough to kill the yeast yet low enough that the lacto won't die. Maybe 120f or so? Does anyone know that these temps are? All help is very much appreciated.

I don't think that will work. Both yeast and lacto like high temperatures. We ferment at 'low' temps to minimize the bi-products of yeast, but it prefers to live in temps around 100 F, just like lacto.

I would think the best way to isolate the lacto culture would be to get the oldest bottle that you can find, keep it for a year, and then grow the lacto. Sacc doesn't really like low ph environment, I would expect to be all but dead by 1 year. If you can get the lacto to start (largest population), the high ph will prevent the sacc from reproducing.

 

[dantheman13]

This blog post on BKYeast might interest you.

 

[BzurkoBrews]

I was the poster on there asking about what sacc strain they use. BK and I had a conversation about that privately.


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[Soilworker]

Thanks for the info guys. I think I'm going attempt to culture up some of the bugs in the dregs by adding some apple juice to the bottle (emptied with just the dregs) and letting that ferment pretty warm. Hoping that it will turn sour eventually so I know there's some viable lacto in there and build up from there to pitch for a full 5 gallon berliner weisse. I'll post updates as I go since I'm sure other people may want to do something similar.

 

[dantheman13]

I did that with Cascade Kriek. The beer oxidized, but I think that was my fault. For that reason though, you could also include dregs of another beer that has Brett in it (I believe that will reduce the risk of oxidation). My story here.

 

[Soilworker]

Got about 3 fingers worth of dregs and beer with 12oz of pasteurized apple cider sitting at around 90F:

 

[Sleepyemt]

I'm curious to see your results


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[jnacey]

Got about 3 fingers worth of dregs and beer with 12oz of pasteurized apple cider sitting at around 90F:

Did anything ever come from this?

 

[Sleepyemt]

Did anything ever come from this?

Not sure if it did for him, but I've gotten a pretty healthy starter going myself....

 

[jnacey]

Not sure if it did for him, but I've gotten a pretty healthy starter going myself....

What were the steps you took? Use DME or apple juice? How long has it been going? How's the sourness?

 

[Sleepyemt]

What were the steps you took? Use DME or apple juice? How long has it been going? How's the sourness?

I used both, kind split the difference, Stated with 500ml and dregs, once I saw fermentation going I built it up to a 1 liter. Give it longer than you would a normal starter... a month? remember these dregs have been aged and stored cold... I almost wasn't sure if it would work It seems to sour quicker from just the AJ once it got going... I just do occasional "feedings" now. I havent used an airlock either, just foil and rubberbands...

Its now going in a gallon jug, very tart, It drinks nicely as it is. I've added some to a saison that I'll add some homegrown Riesling grapes to...

I do get what looks like a Brett pellicle that forms also... I'll see if I can get a pic soon