Brewzilla Gen4 Discussion/Tips Talk

[mashdar]

IMO gap is over rated unless you're making flour. Different grain is going to grind differently, and what matters is size of endosperm chunks and state of husk. On the BZg4, you want pretty in-tact husks. There may be a worst-case endosperm crush that causes plugging, but I haven't seen that issue personally.

Bottom line is: If not using a bag, look at your crush and adjust to keep husks in good shape. Maybe start at 0.035" but be prepared to adapt to the size of your corns and the dynamics of your mill.

 

[hungupdown]

I put the grain bag on the outside of the tun. The bag will the capture any fine grains that make through the tun screen. After you raise the tun and sparge your grains &drain them, the grain bag is used to contain the hop additions during your boil. This provides for the greatest hop utilization. Once your boil is completed, lift the bag and drain it.
Using this method your are only leaving behind a fine debris field that does not interfere with the pump. Remember to recirculate for your mash.

Do you empty any husks out of the bag out before boiling?
Just wondering if tannin extraction might be an issue, otherwise.

 

[SacSudz]

I crush with 0.033" / 0.8382 mm gap on a Monster Mill MM-3 (3 roller mill). I haven't had any stuck mashes.

Note that gap has to be referenced by the mill as well. I did grain crush comparisons between my 2 roller and this MM-3. At the 0.033" gap on 2 roller I had some uncracked grains. The 3 roller first passes through 0.050" before the 0.033", and that dual pass makes a difference. I typically get 80-82% mash efficiency with this crush on the Brewzilla (doing a sparge).

I'm considering buying the same mill grain. Am I to understand this right, one roller is set at .05" and the other .033"?

 

[hungupdown]

IMO gap is over rated unless you're making flour. Different grain is going to grind differently, and what matters is size of endosperm chunks and state of husk. On the BZg4, you want pretty in-tact husks. There may be a worst-case endosperm crush that causes plugging, but I haven't seen that issue personally.

Bottom line is: If not using a bag, look at your crush and adjust to keep husks in good shape. Maybe start at 0.035" but be prepared to adapt to the size of your corns and the dynamics of your mill.

Many industrial scale mills, re-adjust crush, for each type & batch of malt, using grist separation box measurements. The box gives the ratios, of coarse grain (inc husks) : fine grain : flour. They aim for consistant ratios, whatever the grain.

 

[micraftbeer]

I'm considering buying the same mill grain. Am I to understand this right, one roller is set at .05" and the other .033"?

Yes. The first pass rollers do not adjust, they're always at 0.050". The second set of rollers are the ones you can adjust. I tried different settings looking at grain crush and mash efficiency and I ended up with 0.033". And don't have any stuck mash issues with that.

 

[SacSudz]

Yes. The first pass rollers do not adjust, they're always at 0.050". The second set of rollers are the ones you can adjust. I tried different settings looking at grain crush and mash efficiency and I ended up with 0.033". And don't have any stuck mash issues with that.

Perfect, thanks!

 

[garm]

Anyone have success with the CIP sprayer? I tried it for an hour or so with PBW and I still had to scrub the bottom where the elements are. It gets the walls and lid ok, but those are cleaned in seconds with a sponge anyway.

 

[DuncB]

Do you empty any husks out of the bag out before boiling?

You should only be boiling liquid, the grains get pulled before the boil.
If you are sparging make sure sparge pH is less than 6 to reduce tannin extraction.

 

[Neldog0]

Anyone have success with the CIP sprayer? I tried it for an hour or so with PBW and I still had to scrub the bottom where the elements are. It gets the walls and lid ok, but those are cleaned in seconds with a sponge anyway.

I got the CIP CLEANER & found that it was only good for rinsing. Because I don’t want an extra step, I’m not using it.

 

[Starkers]

I was wondering if anyone else encountered this situation. I bought the Brewzilla Gen 4 220v from Morebeer and the malt pipe only has the feet at the bottom, not the new style. I checked the web page again and at the bottom it had a note that due to patent issues they could not supply the new pipe. I missed that when I ordered.

The odd thing is Morebeer is selling the 110v with the new style pipe and is selling a replacement pipe that is the new style.

Has this happened to anyone else? I emailed Morebeer and am awaiting a reply.

 

[roseundy]

I was wondering if anyone else encountered this situation. I bought the Brewzilla Gen 4 220v from Morebeer and the malt pipe only has the feet at the bottom, not the new style. I checked the web page again and at the bottom it had a note that due to patent issues they could not supply the new pipe. I missed that when I ordered.

The odd thing is Morebeer is selling the 110v with the new style pipe and is selling a replacement pipe that is the new style.

Has this happened to anyone else? I emailed Morebeer and am awaiting a reply.

I ordered my 220V Gen4 just this last November and the malt pipe came with both sets of feet.

 

[Brewdit]

I was wondering if anyone else encountered this situation. I bought the Brewzilla Gen 4 220v from Morebeer and the malt pipe only has the feet at the bottom, not the new style. I checked the web page again and at the bottom it had a note that due to patent issues they could not supply the new pipe. I missed that when I ordered.

The odd thing is Morebeer is selling the 110v with the new style pipe and is selling a replacement pipe that is the new style.

Has this happened to anyone else? I emailed Morebeer and am awaiting a reply.

My 65L gen4 that I got in November last year came with one set of feet, I called to tell them and they sent the new mod. right out, didn't even ask for the other back. Great customer service..

 

[mashdar]

My 65L gen4 that I got in November last year came with one set of feet, I called to tell them and they sent the new mod. right out, didn't even ask for the other back. Great customer service..

Who did you contact? And what country are you in?

 

[Brewdit]

Who did you contact? And what country are you in?

I just called More Beer, don't know who I spoke to, I'm in NY state.

 

[Starkers]

My 65L gen4 that I got in November last year came with one set of feet, I called to tell them and they sent the new mod. right out, didn't even ask for the other back. Great customer service..

Thanks for the update. I'm hopefull I get the same result.

 

[Dave77]

Thanks everyone for contributing to this thread. It helped me in my decision to finally pull the trigger and order one. Can't wait to try it out! Have been a BIAB brewer since I started.

 

[Broken Crow]

So, with a 35L Brewzilla; excluding high-gravity beers; I usually build my recipes to finish with 6.25 G into the fermenter. I have a ridiculous OCD-like thing about having a full 5 gallons of clear beer in my 5G kegs...the remnants go in a baby keg or get bottled with dextrose...the last out of the fermenter using a floating diptube that will draw sometimes cloudy beer right above the trub.
With average gravity beers, just what finishing volume can I expect from a Brewzilla 35L?
(I suspect @Dave77 is taking advantage of the same sale I'm considering... Hi Dave, nice to see you! )

 

[DuncB]

I seem to remember filling my fermentasaurus to 30 litres with my robobrew 3.
But it was brimming and I boiled gently.
I suppose you could get more with a shorter boil or by liquoring back a slightly stronger beer.

 

[mcmichaelangelo]

I have been having issues with Mash temp overshoots. @KegLand I'm using PID with the bluetooth thermometer. Should I try disabling PID?

My setup is

110V 9 gallon Brewzilla Gen 4
Neoprene Jacket kit
HED
Bluetooth thermometer

I'm running the heating element at 100% during the mash and have PID enabled. I also am recirculating the mash.

Today was my first problem with mash temps, in at least 6 brews. I struck in at the desired temp (160), thoroughly stirred the grain, put the RAPT thermometer in the mash, then waited the usual 15 minutes to set up the grain filter, then turned on the recirc pump, and the temp just kept climbing, up to 162. Turned the heater off and it still kept climbing for at least 5 minutes. Mash is fubar, having never been below 160. No idea what is going on, especially when the ambient temp in my garage is about 42 F. Ready to sell the whole setup.

 

[mashdar]

Today was my first problem with mash temps, in at least 6 brews. I struck in at the desired temp (160), thoroughly stirred the grain, put the RAPT thermometer in the mash, then waited the usual 15 minutes to set up the grain filter, then turned on the recirc pump, and the temp just kept climbing, up to 162. Turned the heater off and it still kept climbing for at least 5 minutes. Mash is fubar, having never been below 160. No idea what is going on, especially when the ambient temp in my garage is about 42 F. Ready to sell the whole setup.

Sounds like the bottom was hotter than the top. Did you have the heat on at the bottom whilst not recirculating and using bluetooth probe? If so, there was no feedback and it just kept heating until hitting the max temp differential.

(edit: Also, FWIW, I do not wait 15 minutes to circulate, and hadn't heard of that practice.)

Aside: are you aiming to mash at 158F? Strike water at 160F sounds high.

 

[mcmichaelangelo]

Sounds like the bottom was hotter than the top. Did you have the heat on at the bottom whilst not recirculating and using bluetooth probe? If so, there was no feedback and it just kept heating until hitting the max temp differential.

(edit: Also, FWIW, I do not wait 15 minutes to circulate, and hadn't heard of that practice.)

Aside: are you aiming to mash at 158F? Strike water at 160F sounds high.

Thanks for your response. Beersmith always calculates the strike temp about 8 degrees higher than mash temp to account for ambient grain temp, and it always seems about 160. As soon as I mash in I lower the target temp to 152. I've always waited 15 minutes to recirc, on this and other systems, which is a standard practice for avoiding stuck mashes. I should probably double-check the max temp differential... I turned off the heat as soon as I realized it wasn't going down to the target temp and never turned it back on for the last half of the mash (30+ minutes), and it never got below 157, even with the lid off in a 45 degree garage....

 

[razzman]

I have been having issues with Mash temp overshoots. @KegLand I'm using PID with the bluetooth thermometer. Should I try disabling PID?

My setup is

110V 9 gallon Brewzilla Gen 4
Neoprene Jacket kit
HED
Bluetooth thermometer

I'm running the heating element at 100% during the mash and have PID enabled. I also am recirculating the mash.

A bit late to the party I know. I run the 65lt Brerwzilla gen 4. I started using the BLE thermometer only for the the last 3 batches. I keep the differential at 3 degrees celcius. I also use the PID while mashing. The first batch I got a varying temp range between the bottom and top temp probes. The most important change I made was to drop the power to 30-40%. I figured that with the design of the three circular elements running at 100% that the bottom was retaining too much heat and that caused a sustained increase in temp (bottom probe) Dropping the power seems to have prevented this issue and the subsequent brews have worked out just fine. Using the PID, the temp swing is about 1 degrees C and I can live with that.

 

[mashdar]

Thanks for your response. Beersmith always calculates the strike temp about 8 degrees higher than mash temp to account for ambient grain temp, and it always seems about 160. As soon as I mash in I lower the target temp to 152. I've always waited 15 minutes to recirc, on this and other systems, which is a standard practice for avoiding stuck mashes. I should probably double-check the max temp differential... I turned off the heat as soon as I realized it wasn't going down to the target temp and never turned it back on for the last half of the mash (30+ minutes), and it never got below 157, even with the lid off in a 45 degree garage....

If you leave the heat on at all without recirculating, and while using the BT probe, you'd practically have to boil the bottom of the mash for the heat to reach the probe. Definitely either stay on the bottom probe, or turn the heat off when not recirculating.

I've found you also need to stir or recirc to get accurate strike water readings.

edit: I looked around and managed to find one video of a guy who waits before recirc, but the other ~6 videos and several websites I looked at all went straight from stir to recirc. edit 2: Kept looking because I'm curious. I found a couple more references to it. Maybe I'll try waiting to see if it allows better flow with finer crush.

 

[micraftbeer]

@rtstrider I have the same setup as you. Here are the temperature anomalies I've come across and how I've dealt with them.

1. I heat the strike water without BT sensor. I'll turn on the pump to recirc water to make sure the whole volume is at strike water temp before mashing in. I run it about 5 minutes. When I first turn on the pump, the sensor takes a drop down by a couple degrees, telling me the water isn't all at the same temp.

2. I have the malt pipe up, pour in all my grain, then lower into the water. I stir until all the dough balls are broken up. This takes me about 10 minutes. I immediately turn the pump on, with the recirc valve lever open about halfway.

3. Initially I see a big differential between BT thermometer and the base temp sensor. If I'm recirculating too slowly, this can take several minutes to get in line. I have the temp differential set to 4 degrees F. So when I mash in, and my target temp drops from strike water temp to first mash step temp, I'll initially be in a situation where the bottom temp probe is > 4F above, so it doesn't add any heat. I could see if you had this set to a higher value, you could really start to build up heat at the bottom, and when it finally mixes in, you overshoot. If BT isn't coming up, I open the recirc valve more to get higher flow rate and better mixing. That typically resolves it.

4. Other than that, my multi-step mashes behave very well once I get through this initial phase and I am super pleased with the temp control, and a reliable small overshoot on steps that allows me to have mash profiles programmed to start the mash timer "when target temp is reached".

My PID is set to p=0.38, i=0.01, d=0.05. I dialed these in while looking at mash temp response to multi-step mashes.

 

[mashdar]

I have the temp differential set to 4 degrees F.

IIRC the default is something high (10C?). I also tightened this up, as AFAIK overshooting will kill enzymes pretty quickly, and I'm sometimes at marginal DP.

edit: Also, fwiw, Kegland recommends no PID for BT thermometer. Obviously if you're dialed in it should work, but I suspect they're worried about people using values meant for a bottom probe.

 

[KegLand]

IIRC the default is something high (10C?). I also tightened this up, as AFAIK overshooting will kill enzymes pretty quickly, and I'm sometimes at marginal DP.

edit: Also, fwiw, Kegland recommends no PID for BT thermometer. Obviously if you're dialed in it should work, but I suspect they're worried about people using values meant for a bottom probe.

Using PID when you use the BT thermometer is really not required in our opinion.

When you are programming PID and if you really want PID to work will you have to program the settings in the PID to work in such a way that it turns off before you reach the set temp so you do not overshoot. Even without using the PID at all the overshoot when using the bluetooth probe is minimal.

Also if you push the probe shallower or deeper into the malt pipe or if you change the pump recirculation speeds or if you are regularly changing from larger to smaller batches you technically should be changing your PID settings too and really it's not a good use of your time as just using the bluetooth probe already gets you excellent results anyway without the need for it.

 

[micraftbeer]

I'm planning to go back and gather my run data in a more logical fashion. I did a bunch of experiments just with a batch of grain and tweaking controller settings. It always takes me awhile to figure out how to find it, but I love that RAPT keeps a record of every brew session. And since I was labelling my runs with the particular settings, I know this one was using BT probe and had PID off. 122F target temp step that went to 130F and then ever so slowly came down. Looks like I had allowed temperature offset of 8F based on the trace (but I didn't record that one in my notes at the time).

I didn't like this overshoot, so started playing with the PID.

 

[mashdar]

I'm planning to go back and gather my run data in a more logical fashion. I did a bunch of experiments just with a batch of grain and tweaking controller settings. It always takes me awhile to figure out how to find it, but I love that RAPT keeps a record of every brew session. And since I was labelling my runs with the particular settings, I know this one was using BT probe and had PID off. 122F target temp step that went to 130F and then ever so slowly came down. Looks like I had allowed temperature offset of 8F based on the trace (but I didn't record that one in my notes at the time).

I didn't like this overshoot, so started playing with the PID.

View attachment 842698

edit: NM, clearly killed heat at setpoint.

 

[Starkers]

I was wondering if anyone else encountered this situation. I bought the Brewzilla Gen 4 220v from Morebeer and the malt pipe only has the feet at the bottom, not the new style. I checked the web page again and at the bottom it had a note that due to patent issues they could not supply the new pipe. I missed that when I ordered.

The odd thing is Morebeer is selling the 110v with the new style pipe and is selling a replacement pipe that is the new style.

Has this happened to anyone else? I emailed Morebeer and am awaiting a reply.

Quick update. I contacted Morebeer and they sent me one of the new pipes.

 

[Barão]

I have a Brewzilla gen 4... I want to do BIAB... no sparging.....should I consider the dead space below the false bottom?

 

[rtstrider]

I have a Brewzilla gen 4... I want to do BIAB... should I consider the dead space below the false bottom?

I just dough in a 1.8qts per lb and call it a day

 

[AkiraSakura]

I am looking for any information and help about making a custom web/mobile screen to use with the Brewzilla (3 separate Brewzillas, same screen).. i already have my Rapt portal with the other devices that I control... i have a 200L kegland brew house and want to replace the control panel with the G4 style screen and wifi functions... ultimately leading to me being able to use an iPad to control the functions needed.. i can see on the portal that they list the functions but i don't where to start my journey in implantation of them..

 

[DuncB]

Maybe you should discuss the inadequacies or improvements of your 200 litre brew house with Kegland or @KegLand .
I only have seen their 300litre system in action on line.

 

[Barão]

Trituração com água cheia...sem borrifo..Tipo BIAB..é necessário considerar o espaço morto sob a cesta ?

 

[Neldog0]

I have a Brewzilla gen 4... I want to do BIAB... no sparging.....should I consider the dead space below the false bottom?

I use 1.5 qts per lb. Then sparge with about 2 gallons. I don’t consider dead space because it drains completely.

 

[Barão]

I use 1.5 qts per lb. Then sparge with about 2 gallons. I don’t consider dead space because it drains completely.

thanks

 

[Mucklemann]

Using PID when you use the BT thermometer is really not required in our opinion.

When you are programming PID and if you really want PID to work will you have to program the settings in the PID to work in such a way that it turns off before you reach the set temp so you do not overshoot. Even without using the PID at all the overshoot when using the bluetooth probe is minimal.

Also if you push the probe shallower or deeper into the malt pipe or if you change the pump recirculation speeds or if you are regularly changing from larger to smaller batches you technically should be changing your PID settings too and really it's not a good use of your time as just using the bluetooth probe already gets you excellent results anyway without the need for it.

It would be good to see finer control via the RAPT portal and profiles as per this change request:
https://gitlab.com/rapt.io/public/-/issues/6

If we could up-vote for this, then we could get profile step control over elements like temperature differential would be usefull based on the discussion in this thread.

 

[Mucklemann]

First brew the other day in the Brewzilla 35l Gen4 and I have a question about the following mash that went too high.

Bear in mind that I had not read this forum and was kind of flying blind with default settings.

• 240V Brewzilla
• Bluetooth temp probe centred in mash
• Temp diff: 8 degrees C
• Hysteresis: 2 degrees C
• power 100%
• pump 100%
• Strike temp 71C
• Mash target temp 66C

You can see that the blue BT probe shows an overshoot as expected.
The problem is that the mash gets to 71C based on the BT probe and takes 50 minutes to get back to 66. Pretty much stuffed at that point.

Surely the temp would drop faster than that. I recall the elements coming on, but the RAPT portal does not record that valuable data which would be so helpful in troubleshooting.

Any ideas?

For my next mash I'll set it up based on advice in this forum. Temp diff 0.3, hysteresis 1-2C, power 75%

 

[Whisky River]

First brew the other day in the Brewzilla 35l Gen4 and I have a question about the following mash that went too high.

Bear in mind that I had not read this forum and was kind of flying blind with default settings.
View attachment 846745

• 240V Brewzilla
• Bluetooth temp probe centred in mash
• Temp diff: 8 degrees C
• Hysteresis: 2 degrees C
• power 100%
• pump 100%
• Strike temp 71C
• Mash target temp 66C

You can see that the blue BT probe shows an overshoot as expected.
The problem is that the mash gets to 71C based on the BT probe and takes 50 minutes to get back to 66. Pretty much stuffed at that point.

Surely the temp would drop faster than that. I recall the elements coming on, but the RAPT portal does not record that valuable data which would be so helpful in troubleshooting.

Any ideas?

For my next mash I'll set it up based on advice in this forum. Temp diff 0.3, hysteresis 1-2C, power 75%

Do you have the PID turned off?

 

[Mucklemann]

Do you have the PID turned off?

Yep. My understanding is that with the by probe pod is not needed.

I think the problem lies in the combination of settings for hysteresis, differential and heater power.