Brewing Rochefort 10: Should I get their water?

[jedufa]

I want to make a great brew out of this one.

I have the possibility to drive 3-4 hours to get to the water source where the Abbaye is getting the water of this world class beer.

Is it a silly thing to do, knowing that I do not have their yeast? I will use the belgian Abbey II instead, unless I try to extract the yeast from a few of their bottles too?

Am I over complicating the issue?

Thanks,
JF

 

[Denny]

Although it's a good idea to try to emulate the water, there is really no need to make that drive to get the water. Also, you have no idea how or if they treat that water after they get it. Just use Brunwater. I have used it to make my Rochefort "clone" and it really works well. Just pick the color/flavor profile. And BTW, WY1762 is Rochefort yeast.

 

[Teromous]

I'd probably drive out there just for kicks. Water collection would just be the excuse I'd use to tell everybody.

Anyway if you do go out there, post some pics up here for the enjoyment of the rest of us.

 

[jedufa]

Thanks Denny for the feedback.

I haven't found any Rochefort10 recipe that I really believed in, so I merged some related recipes I have seen.
Mind giving me your opinion on my recipe?


ROCHEFORT 10 JFD
Belgian Dark Strong Ale
Type: All Grain Date: 09/08/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 20.00 l
Brewer: JFD
Boil Size: 31.04 l
Boil Time: 90 min
Equipment: Pot and Cooler (13 Gal/50 L) - All Grain
Final Bottling Volume: 19.50 l
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00
Fermentation: Ale, Three Stage Taste
Create a yeast starter with 1.50 l of wort
Total Water Needed: 42.70 l

Mash Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel 3EBC (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 51.8 %
1.70 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) 7EBC (5.9 EBC) Grain 2 17.6 %
0.75 kg Caramunich Malt (110.3 EBC) Grain 3 7.8 %
0.50 kg Special B Malt 350EBC (354.6 EBC) Grain 4 5.2 %
0.45 kg Wheat, Flaked (3.2 EBC) Grain 5 4.7 %
0.25 kg Aromatic Malt (51.2 EBC) Grain 6 2.6 %

Mash Steps
Name Description Step
TemperatureStep Time
Protein Rest Add 15.00 l of water at 58.5 C 52.0 C 30 min
Beta Saccharification Add 5.60 l of water at 98.9 C 63.0 C 30 min
Alpha Saccharification Add 8.00 l of water at 98.9 C 72.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Add 6.50 l of water at 99.2 C 76.6 C 10 min
Fly sparge with 7.60 l water at 75.6 C

Estimated pre-boil gravity is 1.083 SG
stimated pre-boil gravity is 1.083 SG
Boil Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 kg Candi Sugar, Amber D45 (90.0 EBC) Sugar 7 10.4 %
54.66 g Styrian Goldings [5.25 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 22.7 IBUs
15.30 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh 4.5% [4.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 9 3.7 IBUs
0.26 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 10 -
6.00 g Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 11 -
7.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh 4.5% [4.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
Estimated Post Boil Vol: 24.74 l and Est Post Boil Gravity: 1.108 SG
1.0 pkg Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) [124.21 ml]

Fermentation
09/08/2013 - Primary Fermentation (4.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
Primary Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Other 14 -
13/08/2013 - Secondary Fermentation (10.00 days at 19.4 C ending at 19.4 C)
23/08/2013 - Tertiary Fermentation (14.00 days at 18.3 C ending at 18.3 C)
Date Bottled/Kegged: 06/09/2013 - Carbonation: Bottle with 114.70 g Corn Sugar
Age beer for 30.00 days at 18.3 C

 

[jedufa]

Teromous, I feel the same way

 

[Denny]

The recipe from Herman Holtrop is spot on.

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Belgian Abbeyll (Wyeast #1762)
Yeast Starter: No, I'm lazy and use two packs
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter: no
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.078
Final Gravity: 1.018
IBU: 26.2
Boiling Time (Minutes): 75
Color: 27.6
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 23 days @ 69-70
Additional Fermentation: Bottle condition for at least two months
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days @69-70
Tasting Notes: It's everything you would expect from our monk brewing friends... great beer!

10.92 lb Pilsner (2 row) Belgian (2.0 SRM) 70.24%
1.73 lb Caramunich Malt (46.0 SRM) 11.13%
0.58 lb Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) 3.75%
0.58 lb Special B Malt (114.0 SRM) 3.75%
0.23 lb Carafa special dehusked (302.0 SRM) 1.47%
1.50 lb Dark Belgian candy sugar (100 SRM) 9.65 %
1.73 oz Styrian Goldings [4.20%] Boil 60 min
0.75 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.50%] Boil 30 min
0.39 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.50%] Boil 5 min
0.38 oz coriander seed Boil 5 min (Crush first)

MASH PROFILE

Protein rest Add 12.64 qt water at 156.2F to get 142F for 30min
Saccrification Add 11.23 qt water at 170.2F to get 154F for 60 min
Mash out Add 9.83 qt water at 205.6 to get 168F for 5 min
Begin Vorlauf then drain Mash Tun
Sparge with 0.73 gallons of water at 168F

Carb with 4.83 oz corn sugar

This is the award winning recipe by Hermann Holtrop from a Rochefort 8 clone comp that was held in the Netherlands. I think it's very close to the original Rochefort 8. A little darker then the original, but just as tasty... enjoy! If you can't find Carafa Special, Carafa l (337.0 SRM) will work well but will be a bit darker so scale back a bit.

 

[jedufa]

About the water again. ..

"L’eau, matière première extrêmement importante en quantité et en qualité, provient directement de la source de la Tridaine. Cette source est alimentée par la nappe phréatique située à proximité de l’abbaye. Aucun traitement chimique, physique ou autre n’est appliqué à cette eau naturellement pure.*"
... website

 

[jedufa]

I brewed my rochefort 10 this morning, with everything running according to plan. Original Gravity =1.103. It tasted soooo sweet...

Schedule:
3-4 days Primary
4 days Secondary
10 days Tertiary
Bottleling.

Let's see how it turns out. Used normal tap water at the end

 

[Denny]

That's a darn short fermentation schedule for a beer of that OG.

 

[jedufa]

Indeed. I started to read a bit more on the fermentation process for high beers, and it seems that I am quite off. Thanks for highlighting this before it is too late!

From what I gather, I would think of doing this:
- 10 days primary at 22C (72F)
- 6 weeks secondary at 10C (52F)

I have read that it can be beneficial to aerate the primary with an air pump for 10 minutes.

I also intend to repitch some yeast, but I am not too sure when (before botteling, in the secondary, in the middle of the primary?).

Let me know,

JF

 

[Denny]

Indeed. I started to read a bit more on the fermentation process for high beers, and it seems that I am quite off. Thanks for highlighting this before it is too late!

From what I gather, I would think of doing this:
- 10 days primary at 22C (72F)
- 6 weeks secondary at 10C (52F)

I have read that it can be beneficial to aerate the primary with an air pump for 10 minutes.

I also intend to repitch some yeast, but I am not too sure when (before botteling, in the secondary, in the middle of the primary?).

Let me know,

JF

You seem to have some real knowledge gaps for undertaking a beer like this. Let me give you some advice based on my experience brewing this....don't set a time for primary. The beer makes its own schedule and will be done when it's done. Keep the temps cool (65F...that's the beer, not ambient) for the first 5 days, then start letting it rise to wherever it wants to go. It will not take 6 weeks in secondary. Maybe 2-3. If you repitch before bottling, do it when you bottle and add the priming sugar. I assume you were talking about repitching for bottling.

 

[Moose1231]

It's a good idea to do a triple fermentation, but I would age the beer for more than 30 days. Something like 6 months sounds better.

I did a clone attempt that looks like your recipe. After 1 month in bottle, the beer tasted like crap. I put the beer in my closet and forgot it for 1 year. I recently found those beer, decided that I should try them and it tastes so good. Probably one of my best beer. Anyway, I would recommend to age the beer more than a month

 

[Denny]

It's a good idea to do a triple fermentation, but I would age the beer for more than 30 days. Something like 6 months sounds better.

I did a clone attempt that looks like your recipe. After 1 month in bottle, the beer tasted like crap. I put the beer in my closet and forgot it for 1 year. I recently found those beer, decided that I should try them and it tastes so good. Probably one of my best beer. Anyway, I would recommend to age the beer more than a month

Wow, I don't know what to say. When I've made Rochefort tributes by the recipe I posted (maybe at least a dozen times), they were amazing in less than a couple months. Real Rochefort is not aged anywhere near as long as you do yours. But whatever your tastebuds tell you....

 

[Teromous]

I have read that it can be beneficial to aerate the primary with an air pump for 10 minutes.

If you want to use an air pump that's fine but I have had good results from 1762 before I had any automated aeration. I've also had good results from under-pitching the yeast so there's always that (intentional stressing and all of that goodness).

I know Stan Hieronymus says in Brew Like a Monk that Rochefort uses 15 million cells per mL for all beers ranging 1.072-1.096. By my math 5 gallons is 18927mL*15million = roughly 284 billion cells. Mr. Malty gives about 1 vial/pack and 4L starter for this volume. I suppose if you want to give it that authentic edge you could always go that way.

What's interesting is that the fermentation schedule for Rochefort 10 in the book is very short. He mentions a primary of 68F rising to 73F over 7 days, and a secondary of 46F for three days. My personal experience with this yeast is that it takes longer. Again as Denny mentioned you have to watch and read the yeast as you go along. It's never the same time frame even with the same recipe.

I recommend getting his book, it's excellent even if you live right next door

 

[jedufa]

Just as a follow up.
OG was 1.103
SG after 5 days primary was 1.017
Giving estimated 11.2% ABV
Transferred to secondary after the 5 days of primary.

In the mean time, I have built a fermentation chamber (5feet long box fed by a fridge) and I store my secondary at 14°C (57°F). Will keep it there for 4 weeks.

Jeff