Brew kettle with lowest TC for heating element?

[ExMachina]

Am desperately trying to get my eBIAB train rolling, but I seem to keep hitting bumps. First was electrical, now it's the brew kettle.

All I want is a 20 gal kettle with a heating element port (2"TC) that is as low as possible (port center ~1.25" from the base. This will allow more flexibility in batch volumes and will reduce the chances of the HE getting damaged. Also, it seems that HEs that are too high are a common source of frustration/regret, so I want to address that from the start.

I was about all set to go with Spike Brewing (really helpful guys there), but the lowest they will go on a 2"TC is 2.5" off the bottom. This is about 2x higher that I want so I guess I'm going to have to look elsewhere.

Stout tanks will do whatever you ask them (but it will also take like 6 months ).

Are there any other manufacturers out there I should contact? I don't know all of the options

Thanks

 

[Gameface]

One thing to consider is that you have to also get a TC clamp on that flange.

 

[ExMachina]

One thing to consider is that you have to also get a TC clamp on that flange.

Right. The 1.25" comes from that fact that a 2" TC has an outside flange diameter of 2.5" That way a 2" TC mounted on a center that is 1.25" above the base should be resting on the table. And once it's in place it's not going to be removed during the brew so I don't care if it's not easily removed at that stage. that said, I might consider moving it up to 1.3"

EDIT: oops. 2" TC clamp OD is probalby closer to 3". So maybe 1.5" port height (measured from the outside of the kettle)

 

[Gameface]

The clamp is about 1/2" bigger around than the flange.

 

[swimIan]

Brewershardware.

 

[ExMachina]

Man, Brewershardware might be a winner! I had forgotten about them. Thanks!

 

[augiedoggy]

one option not mentioned,

buy a kettle, drill your own holes and buy bobby Ms weldless TC bulkhead... Thats what I did. you'll save about $100-150 in the process and you can add things wherever you like whenever you feel you need them. Just a heads up theres a reason they only go so low.. Theres often a polished out weld right above the bend of the bottom circumfirence of the kettles.. They likely learned to avoid this area for multiple reasons. this is why some have rusting issues there.

 

[swimIan]

Also: brewboss has a pretty low triclamp ferrule prewelded

 

[ExMachina]

one option not mentioned,

buy a kettle, drill your own holes and buy bobby Ms weldless TC bulkhead... Thats what I did. you'll save about $100-150 in the process and you can add things wherever you like whenever you feel you need them. Just a heads up theres a reason they only go so low.. Theres often a polished out weld right above the bend of the bottom circumfirence of the kettles.. They likely learned to avoid this area for multiple reasons. this is why some have rusting issues there.

That's a good point. I know there's a hidden weld on the side but didn't know about the bottom seam. So how did you drill your hole--it's a big 'un and I don't know that step bits come that large. I've never had much luck getting clean results with so-called "hole saws".

EDIT: hmmm, found this step bit that says it goes up to 65mm (but the reviews are quite mixed as to its quality)

 

[postalbunny]

I had my 20g kettle made by spike... Herms/HLT and then the BK. I requested one TC at 2.5" and the other at 3.5" (dual elements). I've attached some pictures so you can see what the clearance is like. FYI, the measurement is from the bottom of the side of the kettle when spike draws them, doesn't include the little dip/bottom part of the kettle. It's also 2.5" to the center/middle not the bottom of the TC. I'm not sure i'd go any lower than 2.5, 2" could maybe work but you may start having clearance issues getting triclamps on/off. In my pictures I've placed a ruler on the stand itself, it's not crooked... that's just the camera angle as i just candidly snapped this real quick for you. Also, the 2.5" is at about the 4-4.5g mark inside to cover the element.

For the HLT I did one 2" TC at 2.5, another at 3.5, my herms coils at 5" and 12.5" (50ft 1/2) and two 1/2 ports at 1.5 from bottom (RTD probe) and at 1.5" from top (recirc). When brewing i'd just treat/fill 20g of water, doing a 10g batch i still keep the top of the coil submerged which I thought was a big deal (turns out it's not really).

You mentioned it's 2x higher than you want, but i'm not sure 1.75" will work (half). Looking at the picture, i imagine moving the center down 1.75" and i don't think it'll fit unless your pot can hang over an edge. I think the lowest you'll want is 2". In the pic you can see it's actually 3" to center due to the lip/bottom of the kettle. You could probably go 1.5-1.75 if you had the parts in hand and could mock it up. If i was having spike do them i wouldn't go lower than 2" for fear that it comes back too low.

 

[ExMachina]

FYI, the measurement is from the bottom of the side of the kettle when spike draws them, doesn't include the little dip/bottom part of the kettle.

Ah! Now this is maybe where some confusion exists. The drawings Spike's has been sending me suggest that the measurements are to the bottom of the inside. If they are in fact measuring from the exterior of the kettle bottom then it might not be as high as I'm envisioning. Your pics were super helpful too. Thank you for posting them.

 

[golfindia]

I wouldn't even think about using a cheap step bit on stainless steel.

Carbide will be friend for that application.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/holesaw32.htm

Remember. If you start a hole with a step bit, you have to finish with a step bit. Almost everything else requires a pilot hole of certain size. You might ne able to salvage with a greenlee punch of you can keep it centered.

 

[postalbunny]

Ah! Now this is maybe where some confusion exists. The drawings Spike's has been sending me suggest that the measurements are to the bottom of the inside. If they are in fact measuring from the exterior of the kettle bottom then it might not be as high as I'm envisioning. Your pics were super helpful too. Thank you for posting them.

I think i may have misspoke, or you miss understood... dbl check their website. They have a "domed" bottom design... the bottom 1/2" is actually stepped "down". So on their drawings they're showing you the depth measured from the bottom of the "kettle" but not the to the ground if you put the kettle on the ground and measure. If you look at my pic, the TC port is 3" above the ground (bottom of stand) but the TC port is 2.5" above the bottom where the domed/lip starts.

here's a link showing their domed part... https://spikebrewing.com/pages/stepped-bottom-design
It's not as useful in an electric HLT that's not direct fired; it's useful for the boil kettle as i use a side pickup and avoid trub. And also for the false bottom, makes a good seal.

 

[Gameface]

I just measured the OD of a 2" TC with the clamp on.

So let's just clear a few things up.

A 2" TC port has a 2" ID, as in the hole is 2" big.

Then there is the flange which brings it to 2.5" OD

But you have to attach things with a clamp and the narrowest part of the clamp was 3" wide and the widest part (the part with the hinge on one side and the screw mechanism on the other) was 4"

So if you put a hole 1.25" up your pot would be resting on the clamp and sitting at an angle.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

A 2" TC port has a 2" ID, as in the hole is 2" big.

For clarity sake, a 2" sanitary (aka tri clamp) fitting has 2" OD tube, and ID is ~1.87" due to the thickness of the tubing walls.

The denotation on sanitary fittings always relate to the OD of the tube being used.

 

[Gameface]

For clarity sake, a 2" sanitary (aka tri clamp) fitting has 2" OD tube, and ID is ~1.87" due to the thickness of the tubing walls.

The denotation on sanitary fittings always relate to the OD of the tube being used.

Right, good clarification.

I just feel like the OP is not fully considering the size of a TC port with the flange and clamp attached.

 

[afro_lou]

Definitely take into consideration the size of your element housing, too! I recently got a Spike 20 gallon eBIAB kettle where I specified the 2” element and outlet TC ports to be as absolutely low as possible, and my TC element housing from NorcalBrewing sits just above the outer bottom of the kettle, so I wouldn’t have wanted to go any lower at all. Now, with that port location, 5 gallon batches would be getting dangerously close to exposing the element to air at the end of the boil. 6 gallon should be fine, though. My 11 gallon batches are perfect, though. If you were somehow able to get the element down another inch, then 5 gallon batches would be easy, but for me at least, I’d have to hang the element housing over the edge of my brewstand shelf.

 

[augiedoggy]

I drilled all my kettles and kettles with a "cheap" harbor freight step bit...cuts like butter if you drill slowly.

 

[Gameface]

I drilled all my kettles and kettles with a "cheap" harbor freight step bit...cuts like butter if you drill slowly.

Yep, I used a Harbor Freight step bit on my last build. No issues at all. I still have the bit and could use it more if needed.

 

[ExMachina]

If you were somehow able to get the element down another inch, then 5 gallon batches would be easy, but for me at least, I’d have to hang the element housing over the edge of my brewstand shelf.

Exactly. And I have a nice square of laboratory bench counter top that I will put directly under the kettle to elevate it 1" during brewing. And the whole point really is to be able to do both 5 and 10 gallon batches w/o worry of a dry firing the element, and a 2.5" center from the bottom of the kettle is going to make risky.

 

[ExMachina]

Right, good clarification.

I just feel like the OP is not fully considering the size of a TC port with the flange and clamp attached.

Yeah, I wasn't clear. I really only care about the flange diameter as I plan to brew with the kettle slightly elevated on a piece of countertop. I just want the flange not to sick out so that I have the option of storing the kettle flat (ie without the clamp in place)

 

[afro_lou]

Have you thought about 1.5” TC? That might get it just a bit lower. My plan is to just brew 6 gallon batches and chalk up anything that doesn’t fit in a corny as brewing losses. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[ExMachina]

Have you thought about 1.5” TC? That might get it just a bit lower. My plan is to just brew 6 gallon batches and chalk up anything that doesn’t fit in a corny as brewing losses. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That's reasonable. For all I can tell I might be being irrational, but I got sold early on with the idea that a 2" heating element port would afford more versatility as well as ease of access. I like the idea of keeping all my fittings @ 1.5" but the Still Dragon element guard I am planning on using comes with all the clamps and seals ... I dunno. Maybe I'm trying too hard to have my malt and brew with it too (or however the old saying goes... )

 

[Gameface]

I really like the @Bobby_M TC element that has a male 30A connector on it. I don't feel like it gets any better than that in so many ways.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/element5500_ripple_tc.htm

I mean it's pretty much perfect and saves you money overall.

 

[Bobby_M]

You know I can sell you a pot with a low TC installed right? http://www.brewhardware.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BIABpackage10Elec240

 

[Bobby_M]

And if you prefer a higher quality pot I can do it with https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/brewbuilt22.htm

 

[Soulshine2]

That's a good point. I know there's a hidden weld on the side but didn't know about the bottom seam. So how did you drill your hole--it's a big 'un and I don't know that step bits come that large. I've never had much luck getting clean results with so-called "hole saws".

EDIT: hmmm, found this step bit that says it goes up to 65mm (but the reviews are quite mixed as to its quality)

Ive used hole saws many times in the past(drilling out foam core steel clad doors for locksets) the best way to get a smooth edged hole is make sure your hole saw is for metal ,and go slow and steady ,drill square to the surface with a backer ,like a piece of wood and use lube. yes I realize we're drilling into a curved pot. Finish up with a pencil grinder ,drum sander or grinding stone to clean up the burrs . Dont hurry.

 

[golfindia]

I drilled all my kettles and kettles with a "cheap" harbor freight step bit...cuts like butter if you drill slowly.

You must have thin ferritic SS kettles. Austentic steels are harder than the material the HF bits are made of.... Ive seen people makes kettle holes with a dremmel grinder. All boils down to right tools for tge job

 

[Gameface]

You must have thin ferritic SS kettles. Austentic steels are harder than the material the HF bits are made of.... Ive seen people makes kettle holes with a dremmel grinder. All boils down to right tools for tge job

Mine were Blichmann, American made 304 SS. The HF step bit worked just fine.

 

[augiedoggy]

You must have thin ferritic SS kettles. Austentic steels are harder than the material the HF bits are made of.... Ive seen people makes kettle holes with a dremmel grinder. All boils down to right tools for tge job

well I meant to type all my kettles and keggles so... no they are not all thin. and no they are a mix of 304 and jindal or whatever bayou uses.. Ive drilled holes in 3 bayous, a ballington kettle as wll as my keggle.. if I had to guess I drilled about 15-18 holes in kettles with 3 different step bits. I also used them in the hoffman steel electrical encloses as well as the HF punch kit I bought after drilling all my kettles. I drilled many holes in. a dremel is not really the right tool for a perfectly round hole IMO but again this is just my actual experience here.. YMMV I had a hell of a time and ruined my first step bit till I tried a different drill with better speed control and the difference was day and night.

A lot of people have used these bits with no problems and others work hardened the stainless by drilling too fast with no lubrication.