bullywee
Well-Known Member
Four of us share a 25g/electric/SS/RIMS/BCS system, one wants out! Should we pay him out as he has requested? Or tell him sylater.
brew-divorce
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Need more info on the situation to give my honest opinion. If it was me, I wouldn't ask to get bought out, just some free beer here and there since I helped pay for the equipment.
bullywee
Well-Known Member
@whatsleftofyou
$5000 all in - brew sys/fermenters/etc split 4 ways
brewed together for 2 years(1 on this sys and 1 on my old sys)
$5000 all in - brew sys/fermenters/etc split 4 ways
brewed together for 2 years(1 on this sys and 1 on my old sys)
Is he asking to be bought out for $1,250? More? Less?
Also is this getting ugly and in need of mediators or is he just having a change of heart and can't justify the time/expense/passion of brewing any more?
Also is this getting ugly and in need of mediators or is he just having a change of heart and can't justify the time/expense/passion of brewing any more?
And you never discussed what would happen to the equipment if someone decided to quit brewing, move, etc? Bad call, if not.
I don't know what the personal situation is, but potentially ruining a friendship either way just isn't worth it to me. The four of you should sit down and hash it out since you know the situation much better than us random people on a forum.
I don't know what the personal situation is, but potentially ruining a friendship either way just isn't worth it to me. The four of you should sit down and hash it out since you know the situation much better than us random people on a forum.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
Interesting.... I dont think he should be allowed to be bought out because of future ramifications.
What if somebody else wants out next year? Next thing you know, your 1,250 investment turned into a 2,500 investment. Not what you originally planned.
He needs to take a loss, maybe he can be bought out at a significant price reduction (you can argue depreciation).
What if somebody else wants out next year? Next thing you know, your 1,250 investment turned into a 2,500 investment. Not what you originally planned.
He needs to take a loss, maybe he can be bought out at a significant price reduction (you can argue depreciation).
bullywee
Well-Known Member
He is asking for 1k, it hasnt gotten ugly yet! But I'm leaning towatd work it out or free brew or
Not true! We know everything on here!
No, not really, whatsleftofyou is right, ruining a friendship isn't worth it. It might seem like a sticky situation now, but a short time down the road you'll be looking for that 4th guy for a golf scramble and wish you guys still talked.
Other solution would be to just ship me the 25gallon setup and I'll take it over for all of you!
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I agree, bad move on not discussing these things upon initial purchase. I can't say I'd be willing to buy someone out. He opted in and now doesn't want to brew any more. His loss. That said, if he is a good friend, it's worth coming to some sort of resolution where everyone can still be friends. Even if it's just a sixer of future batches for say 1 year, or an understanding that it's cool to help himself to the taps when he is over (not bringing growlers to fill, just having a few pints while hanging out).
paulster2626
Well-Known Member
Pay out half now, other half in a few months. In the meantime he gets free brews from the rest of you guys. $1000 isn't that bad split between 3 people.
bullywee
Well-Known Member
Thanks.
Some options to consider since this possibility was not discussed prior to the purchase. I agree that it is not fair to turn around and ask the other partners for money but at the same time each person should have an exit strategy. If the other 3 people do not have the money or desire to buy his portion I think he should also have the option of selling his share to someone else entirely. That way the other 3 are not out any money and he can still pull up his stake and do something else with the money.
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And it'd be best to talk to the other 3 about these details for the future so this headache doesn't happen again.
cheezydemon3
Well-Known Member
BS! 4 in, no discussion of buyout? Suck it up buddy.
He may change his mind later, does he get to buy back in?
What if all 4 want out?
What is the thing worth now?
He may change his mind later, does he get to buy back in?
What if all 4 want out?
What is the thing worth now?
smokewater
Well-Known Member
I would say pay 1/3 of his investment unless he can find a replacement acceptable to all concerned
logdrum
Well-Known Member
Sell his share
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rycov
Well-Known Member
seems like breaking a lease or something. i would say he needs to find someone else to buy in. you know, pay him for his share (or something). or just forget about it. i understand if he needs money. but you went in on something with what you were comfortable with paying why should you have to pay more now. i don't see it as the rest of you are obligated to pay anything if you don't want to. unless you just felt like being nice and helping the guy out, and having a bigger share in the equipment.
makomachine
Well-Known Member
Tough situation considering nothing was outlined at the onset of the agreement. I like the idea of mutually finding another party to buy in however as he can negotiate with the 4th member on share price. He/she needs to be approved by the other members however as nobody wants to brew with a ******.
I would argue for a fair though painful way for him to receive something of a fair compensation. Decide what the system would be worth on the open market if you were to sell it. This is proper because of the "what if" of everyone suddenly deciding they want out. Brand new it was $5000. It has been used. Maybe now it could only reasonably fetch $3000 to $3500 on the used market - just speculating. Therefore his share would only be a quarter of that, approximately in the range of $750 to $875. Per remaining member that works out to be $250 or slightly over.
I would say it would be fair for each member to pay him without interest and in installments over the course of six months to a year. None of the remaining members should be grossly inconvenienced by his abrupt decision and short sightedness. Although I would conversely argue that all four members share the same short-sightedness in not having an exit strategy before making such a large investment.
Just my two cents.
I would say it would be fair for each member to pay him without interest and in installments over the course of six months to a year. None of the remaining members should be grossly inconvenienced by his abrupt decision and short sightedness. Although I would conversely argue that all four members share the same short-sightedness in not having an exit strategy before making such a large investment.
Just my two cents.
bullywee
Well-Known Member
Appreciate all the responses
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
Id be looking for ways to pick the other 2 guys off...
cheezydemon3
Well-Known Member
Murder is usually the easiest and cheapest all around option, and leaves fewer people to get upset about the arrangement down the road.
bottlebomber
Well-Known Member
The brewery can be a very dangerous place... CO2... Heat sticks.... High Voltage! (Done dirt cheap)
How I'd respond would depend on why he's dropping out. Is he having financial issues that are dictating he step back from the hobby, or is he just flaking out?
In the end, I think a deal where the three of you pay him out for a depreciated percentage of his investment is ultimately pretty fair. I'd even say, each of you pays him $300 total, $100 now, $100 in three months, $100 in six months. He gets back $900 total, so he's out about 25% or so (a reasonable level of depreciation). You'll give him some beer for a while to keep things friendly.
But yeah, don't **** up a friendship over a couple hundred bucks.
In the end, I think a deal where the three of you pay him out for a depreciated percentage of his investment is ultimately pretty fair. I'd even say, each of you pays him $300 total, $100 now, $100 in three months, $100 in six months. He gets back $900 total, so he's out about 25% or so (a reasonable level of depreciation). You'll give him some beer for a while to keep things friendly.
But yeah, don't **** up a friendship over a couple hundred bucks.
Brewing systems, like cars, depreciated over time.
If he wants $1k that means he values the system at $4k. Could you sell it for $4k?
If he wants $1k that means he values the system at $4k. Could you sell it for $4k?
Mongrel
Well-Known Member
Best advice in the thread.
The guy leaving the partnership is the one treating his friends poorly. No reason they should bend over for him.
Capital goods depreciate. With a little research you can find out what depreciation method most breweries use. Apply it to your setup, and that's the value to buy him out at.
But I wouldn't buy him out at all. Frankly I would tell him he's welcome to keep brewing with y'all but has no right to demand cash. If he wants his "share" of beer then give it to him less your costs of brewing it plus your labour if he's not helping out.
Capital goods depreciate. With a little research you can find out what depreciation method most breweries use. Apply it to your setup, and that's the value to buy him out at.
But I wouldn't buy him out at all. Frankly I would tell him he's welcome to keep brewing with y'all but has no right to demand cash. If he wants his "share" of beer then give it to him less your costs of brewing it plus your labour if he's not helping out.
Don't you care about why, though? What if he's getting divorced? What if his job is cutting back on his overtime, or his wife just got laid off? What if his kid just broke his arm, and their medical insurance sucks?
It's read hard for me to assume that this guy's being a dick without knowing a thing about the circumstances.
And are you really going to look up the depreciation tables on pro brewery equipment? That's just for tax purposes anyway, it doesn't tell you anything about market value of the equipment. You really want to get that anal about something, when it's going to end up being +/- $50? The guy's already said he's willing to take a haircut ($1,000 versus the $1,250 he put in), do you really want to be THE GUY who "negotiates" down to $827.34?
Get too anal about it, and I guarantee you're going to lose a guy that you DID think of as a friend, at least at one point.
But, if the guy really is being a flake and you aren't that concerned about pissing him off, it's valid to say "there's no buyout, but you still own 25% when you want to start brewing again."
and don't forget to discuss with the 3 remaining how to handle the next one that wants out. Set up a schedule for what you all (or y'all for those south of the mason/dixon) think the system will be worth in the future and what the "buyout" would be.
Jayman931
Well-Known Member
Is there a chance of finding a replacement? I think 1000 bucks is to high....he used it for two years and is only out $250 while 3 people are out $333.00...thats unfair...
The solution that is fair would be have the amount you are paying him equal to the amount of depreciation..there for its all equal...
The 3 of you give him $312.50 each...which equals $937.50 Subtract that from the intial investment and it equals $312.50....all parties equally share the burden and you can remain friends...
Cheers
The solution that is fair would be have the amount you are paying him equal to the amount of depreciation..there for its all equal...
The 3 of you give him $312.50 each...which equals $937.50 Subtract that from the intial investment and it equals $312.50....all parties equally share the burden and you can remain friends...
Cheers
hoppysailor
Well-Known Member
Give him nothing now except maybe some beer. Same goes for anyone else who drops out. If the day comes that the equipment is ever sold, then everyone gets a percentage of the proceeds. Otherwise, I wouldn't want to be the last one remaining in the ownership "group" and be into this $5,000 when I had intended only $1,250. The first one to leave the group sets the precedent for others that might leave. Consider guy #1 just to be taking a break from brewing for a while......
King of Cascade
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Maybe someone already posted this but I’ll say it again. The only fair solution for all partys involved is to sell all the equipment and divide the profits. Maybe the remaining three could repurchase it after but have a plan in place as this may happen again down the road.
I bought out my brew partner because our joint set of equipment just wasn't cutting it. But I felt it was only fair to pay him for what he had put into it when I kept it all. However, this cost far less than your situation, which is why I see it differently.
As others have said, depends why he is leaving. Honestly, if you guys went into this together and didn't discuss a buyout then it kind of sounds like he is being a little *****y to ask for one. I don't see how he could get upset if you guys didn't buy his portion since it wasn't discussed.
However, it's not worth losing a friend if it's just a couple hundred each.
Why is he leaving? We can give you final opinions based on that.
As others have said, depends why he is leaving. Honestly, if you guys went into this together and didn't discuss a buyout then it kind of sounds like he is being a little *****y to ask for one. I don't see how he could get upset if you guys didn't buy his portion since it wasn't discussed.
However, it's not worth losing a friend if it's just a couple hundred each.
Why is he leaving? We can give you final opinions based on that.
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
The laws around partnerships is probably a bit too complex for this kind of situation. Pay the guy out a quarter of what the system is worth. If you all cannot afford to pay him out now then pay him in installments. Otherwise, sell the equipment and split the cash four ways.
Think about it like this. If you had to leave the group in the future -- let's say you were moving across the country -- how would you want the other two to treat you? Would you want them to stiff you or cut your piece of ownership? Or would you want to receive a fair portion of the value of what you collectively own?
Think about it like this. If you had to leave the group in the future -- let's say you were moving across the country -- how would you want the other two to treat you? Would you want them to stiff you or cut your piece of ownership? Or would you want to receive a fair portion of the value of what you collectively own?
thegerm
Well-Known Member
There's depreciation, plus the value of his time spent with the equipment. Also there's a sort of understood agreement when you go into something like this, that you trust one another enough not to screw over the others. If he wants out of that agreement, I'd say that's tough for him. If you and the other 2 were trying to push him out of your little club, then I'd say you'd owe him something. But if he's totally leaving of his own accord, then that's his choice and his loss.
that's just IMHO. take it for what it's worth.
that's just IMHO. take it for what it's worth.
motobrewer
I'm no atheist scientist, but...
I would never put myself in that kind of situation to start with. Partnerships simply do not last. I want to own the whole thing,or I'll leave it alone. This is the very reason why I don't get into these situations. I can't afford top dollar buy outs & all that nonsense. Sell it,split the proceeds 4 ways,& everyone buy his own stuff. It'd be different if it belonged to a club or something.
So if you sell it because one guy drops out, then everybody loses and will be pissed at that guy because they all had to give up a pretty sweet system.
I would lean towards the buyout, but only at 25% of the current market value. Also, he cannot expect his money right away as none of the others were planning on this buyout and cannot be expected to just have the funds on hand for such an occassion.
Lesson here, don't ever go into any partnership with friends or family. It never ends well. I've done it in the past and now I don't speak with multiple family members due to it.
I would lean towards the buyout, but only at 25% of the current market value. Also, he cannot expect his money right away as none of the others were planning on this buyout and cannot be expected to just have the funds on hand for such an occassion.
Lesson here, don't ever go into any partnership with friends or family. It never ends well. I've done it in the past and now I don't speak with multiple family members due to it.
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