Brett C Harvest

[Morrey]

After talking with a yeast lab owner about brett c, he suggested I leave the yeast in a 1.040 starter for a full week. This makes sense thinking back about it since brett is a slow performer compared to sacch. He also said I may note some "vinegary" esters from the starter but this is all normal and the yeast has not "spoiled". Brett may make a vinegar smell in the presence of oxygen on the stir plate, but this will not be pronounced in sealed fermentation.

First thought.....should I aerate wort with my O2 stone prior to Brett pitch?

So after fermentation is all said and done, beer is racked off the yeast cake, I plan to scoop up some cake in sanitized pint jars, loosely capped and refrigerated like any sacch I do. My question is do I need to treat this brett any differently when repitching from a harvest? Should I make a new starter from the saved yeast and leave it on the stir plate a week?

 

[drgonzo2k2]

I highly recommend that you read the Milk the Funk wiki page on Brett, specifically the section on making starters here.

I've had tremendous success using what they call the alternative to the second method.

With that method you're not introducing a lot of oxygen, so low changes of those esters you spoke of, and no need to decant your starter before pitching if you don't want to.

I think it really depends on what your're doing with the Brett on whether you aerate or not. If you're using it as your primary fermenter, then absolutely aerate. If you're pitching it as a secondary fermenter, do not aerate.

Unfortunately I can't help you with your slurry question as I don't harvest yeast like that. I just grow an oversized starter and harvest from there. That's much easier and cleaner to me.

 

[plazola86]

I saved slurry from my last batch and made a starter with that, then I saved half of that starter for future use. The high cell count from the slurry plus the week it was on the stir plate gave me enough cells to start fermentation within a couple hours. The other half I saved will have enough cells to just do the oversized starter save half/pitch half method from now on with no need to harvest slurry as long as it doesn't sit in the fridge for too long.

 

[Morrey]

I highly recommend that you read the Milk the Funk wiki page on Brett, specifically the section on making starters here.

I've had tremendous success using what they call the alternative to the second method.

With that method you're not introducing a lot of oxygen, so low changes of those esters you spoke of, and no need to decant your starter before pitching if you don't want to.

I think it really depends on what your're doing with the Brett on whether you aerate or not. If you're using it as your primary fermenter, then absolutely aerate. If you're pitching it as a secondary fermenter, do not aerate.

Unfortunately I can't help you with your slurry question as I don't harvest yeast like that. I just grow an oversized starter and harvest from there. That's much easier and cleaner to me.

Great feedback. This will be my first attempt to do a 100% Brett C fermentation from the start. Previously I had done a mixed blend but this is a different story entirely.

I'll look over the Brett starter procedures as you linked. If I can do a straight starter pitch w/o decanting, I'm in! Thanks!

If you have any tip or tricks to share with all Brett fermentation, I am all ears. WLP says 85F is my best temp for Brett C so I'll stick there unless suggested differently.

 

[Morrey]

I saved slurry from my last batch and made a starter with that, then I saved half of that starter for future use. The high cell count from the slurry plus the week it was on the stir plate gave me enough cells to start fermentation within a couple hours. The other half I saved will have enough cells to just do the oversized starter save half/pitch half method from now on with no need to harvest slurry as long as it doesn't sit in the fridge for too long.

Great! I typically use harvested sacch slurry within 6 months. Is Brett C about the same shelf life with a refrigerated slurry?

 

[plazola86]

I give everything regardless of strain a 3 month shelf life. If I don't use it within those three months I make a "starter" even if I'm not pitching it just to keep things fresh.

 

[Calder]

If you have any tip or tricks to share with all Brett fermentation, I am all ears. WLP says 85F is my best temp for Brett C so I'll stick there unless suggested differently.

In my experience, temp really doesn't make much difference with that yeast. But if you can get it up to 85 F, then do so, but it will work OK at 70 F.

I have had problems with getting decent attenuation with that yeast, at 70 F or 85 F. The few primary fermentations I've done with that yeast, I needed to add a second yeast to get the FG down. I can't remember the numbers now (and I lost my hard drive with the info on it), but I think I got around 60 to 65% attenuation. I would be interested to hear what you get - report back.

 

[Morrey]

In my experience, temp really doesn't make much difference with that yeast. But if you can get it up to 85 F, then do so, but it will work OK at 70 F.

I have had problems with getting decent attenuation with that yeast, at 70 F or 85 F. The few primary fermentations I've done with that yeast, I needed to add a second yeast to get the FG down. I can't remember the numbers now (and I lost my hard drive with the info on it), but I think I got around 60 to 65% attenuation. I would be interested to hear what you get - report back.

Glad you mentioned the potential attenuation issue. I am putting a starter on the stir plate now (very low speed), so that will give me a full week building the yeast count. I use Tilt floating hydrometers so I can monitor attenuation daily as the SG drops. The yeast should have attenuated out by week 4 (I am told by Lance Shaner of Omega), so like you say, if I am not at target FG by then, I may pitch a half sachet of US-05 to dry it on out. I appreciate the heads up, now I know what to look for. Thanks!

 

[Dcpcooks]

A minimal aeration will help you get a more complete fermentation. I usually shoot for a little less than half the amount. About 30 seconds with a stone and pure 02. I like to pitch at 72-74 and ramp to 80-82 in the first 72-100 hours to drive the tropical fruit and peach esters in Brett C.

Brett will make vinegar type flavors in the presence of o2 as Lance has already told you re: the starter so keep it closed during fermentation. If you get to much acetic acid it will turn to solvent type flavors which you won't be able to remove.

You can harvest the same way you do for sacc yeast. You'll have a nice big culture after fermentation. If you store it for a longer period of time then you will want to spin it up to check viability and help build some reserves in the yeast.

 

[Calder]

A minimal aeration will help you get a more complete fermentation. I usually shoot for a little less than half the amount.

Interested where you get this information from. Everything I have read, seems to indicate that you need to pitch big and aerate big with Brett. That is what I have done when using Brett as the primary yeast; Pitch at lager levels and aerate well. I usually aerate a second time 12 hours after pitching.

As a secondary yeast, I agree, you should minimize any aeration..

 

[Dcpcooks]

American sours by Tonsmeire has some great information on sour brewing. This is also supported by my experiences. I have five sour barrels going now. One is from 5/15, I use it as a solera. That barrel started as a 100% Brett C barrel. I have two others that have Brett c as well as other strains.

 

[Dcpcooks]

In my experience, temp really doesn't make much difference with that yeast. But if you can get it up to 85 F, then do so, but it will work OK at 70 F.



I have had problems with getting decent attenuation with that yeast, at 70 F or 85 F. The few primary fermentations I've done with that yeast, I needed to add a second yeast to get the FG down. I can't remember the numbers now (and I lost my hard drive with the info on it), but I think I got around 60 to 65% attenuation. I would be interested to hear what you get - report back.

I see 75% with minimal aeration and a healthy pitch. The solera will eat anything to 1.002 at this point. Usually only takes a few days if I add 5-10 gallons of fresh wort to a 30 gallon barrel.

 

[newkirk]

I've brewed several batches of an Apricot Blonde using 100% WLP645. Moderate manual aeration, usually active within a few hours. I usually add the apricot puree and brett to my starsanned carboy while the wort is cooling, then add cooled wort and let it do its thing. I've always fermented at ambient 66F-69F with outstanding results. Every time, I've gone from about 1.070 to 1.006 in three weeks or so. It definitely slows down at about 1.015-1.020 or so but always makes it to 1.005-1.007 within a couple weeks after that.

Most recently I rebrewed the same recipe with a 3-way blend - WLP645 Brett Claussenii, Brett Drie cultured from Avery 22, and an unknown brett cultured from Allagash Midnight Brett. (both are identified by the breweries as 100% brett with the same yeast from primary to bottle) It's a bit tarter and notably funkier than the plain WLP645, and for the Apricot I plan to return to 100% BrettC. (though for Blackberry/Raspberry version I'm thinking about sticking with the triple brett blend)

j

 

[Morrey]

I highly recommend that you read the Milk the Funk wiki page on Brett, specifically the section on making starters here.

I've had tremendous success using what they call the alternative to the second method.

With that method you're not introducing a lot of oxygen, so low changes of those esters you spoke of, and no need to decant your starter before pitching if you don't want to.

I think it really depends on what your're doing with the Brett on whether you aerate or not. If you're using it as your primary fermenter, then absolutely aerate. If you're pitching it as a secondary fermenter, do not aerate.

Unfortunately I can't help you with your slurry question as I don't harvest yeast like that. I just grow an oversized starter and harvest from there. That's much easier and cleaner to me.

As discussed, I am in the middle (day 4) of my Brett C starter. The 1" stir bar is barely creating a dimple of a vortex, in fact, most of the culture is not in suspension. I gave the yeast a good manual spin and it went right into suspension. The smell is fresh like a nice beer, not vinegarish which I knew too much O2 could create.

I still have until Saturday on the stir plate. Based on the picture, you may can see the tiny dimple in the center, but more clear is the yeast layer the Brett is forming. Should I increase the speed of the bar slightly or leave as is??

 

[Morrey]

American sours by Tonsmeire has some great information on sour brewing. This is also supported by my experiences. I have five sour barrels going now. One is from 5/15, I use it as a solera. That barrel started as a 100% Brett C barrel. I have two others that have Brett c as well as other strains.

I bought this book and started reading. Valuable information, thanks for suggesting.

 

[drgonzo2k2]

As discussed, I am in the middle (day 4) of my Brett C starter. The 1" stir bar is barely creating a dimple of a vortex, in fact, most of the culture is not in suspension. I gave the yeast a good manual spin and it went right into suspension. The smell is fresh like a nice beer, not vinegarish which I knew too much O2 could create.

I still have until Saturday on the stir plate. Based on the picture, you may can see the tiny dimple in the center, but more clear is the yeast layer the Brett is forming. Should I increase the speed of the bar slightly or leave as is??

Mine usually doesn't sit like that. I think you do want the yeast in suspension. I do not use a 1" stir bar though, that might be the problem. I'd swap it out for a smaller one.

Also, I think you said you had a Maelstrom, so not sure why you're using that crappy Stir Starter I use my Maelstrom on the lowest setting with a normal stir bar. It keeps everything in suspension and doesn't create too big of a dimple.

I bought this book and started reading. Valuable information, thanks for suggesting.

That's a good book, and Michael is a great guy; however, there is lots of incorrect info in that book. Be sure to check his errata page and always cross reference things on the Milk the Funk wiki page.

 

[Morrey]

Mine usually doesn't sit like that. I think you do want the yeast in suspension. I do not use a 1" stir bar though, that might be the problem. I'd swap it out for a smaller one.

Also, I think you said you had a Maelstrom, so not sure why you're using that crappy Stir Starter I use my Maelstrom on the lowest setting with a normal stir bar. It keeps everything in suspension and doesn't create too big of a dimple.



That's a good book, and Michael is a great guy; however, there is lots of incorrect info in that book. Be sure to check his errata page and always cross reference things on the Milk the Funk wiki page.

LOL, I dug that old plate out thinking the Maelstrom would create too much vortex on speed 1. Good thing is no damage has been done plus I have 4 days to speed things up. Looks like the cell count is building...all good and will move over to the Maelstrom today.

I really like Milk the Funk as an info source. I usually read multiple sources of info before forming a firm game plan. If I see things that conflict, I am not shy to ask.

Thank you so much for your help with the Brett C!! First time using it so didn't know exactly what to expect.

 

[SanPancho]

on the subject of Brett C- i made an amazing all brett c beer last year. friggin delicious.

but on repeat- no bueno. it starts nice and fruity but then turns into a mini saison, all kinds of spicy phenols and what not, you'd literally think it was a saison if you didnt know better.

of course, i have minimal notes from the first time, but i feel like it either had it at room temp or in mid 70s. this last time i had it up at 80. same thing happened the second time too. both started with nice fruity notes, but then turned into saisons. do i have contamination? is it the higher temp driving those phenols? did i way underpitch?

anybody else have this experience? i cant figure it out. totally stumped.

 

[Dcpcooks]

What was your repeat?

Same yeast, same malt, same fermentor temps? Brett is a finicky host. But it's not the yeast fault. You need to pull your weight with this yeast.

 

[SanPancho]

Its basically the same beer. Gravity changed a bit. Ferment vessel also changed. But biggest diff is temp. The problem is that i dont have notes on ferment temp for the first batch.