Breaker keeps breaking
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Can't tell from the pics. Measure the resistance with a meter. If the breaker keeps popping don't keep testing the same circuit expecting a different result. These elements are often such cheap crap it's no surprise they fail frequently in our applications.
OP
OP
brewprint
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I took it apart and back together to no avail.
Looking at the pics doesn't it look like a hot weld type mark on those threads?
Man this is irritating. I hope it's under warranty. It doesn't help this brew day though.
If I turn the element on the panel on, the panel works fine. But if I put any load on the element the gfci pops.
Looking at the pics doesn't it look like a hot weld type mark on those threads?
Man this is irritating. I hope it's under warranty. It doesn't help this brew day though.
If I turn the element on the panel on, the panel works fine. But if I put any load on the element the gfci pops.
augiedoggy
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did you check it with a meter? Even a $5 harbor freight meter would work well for this. I see from the color and texture of the insulator block that its one of the chinese elements, From what Ive found, these are inexpensive and usually are sold in bulk to suppliers for between $3-7 each so you have to expect a higher failure rate... If you paid a considerable amount for it I would inquire about a free replacement. Bobby from brew hardware stated in comparision to the camcos, hes seen more of the Chinese ones short internally and have a hotspot somewhere on the element which can eventually short.
So far my chinese TC based elements I purchased direct from a manufactuer seem to be applying heat evenly and working very well but I am not expecting miracles (or free replacements) for what I paid either.
OP
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brewprint
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I bought it from ebrewsupply. It would kind of surprise me if it's the cheap version. It's an ULWD stainless 5500 ripple. I spent $42 on it. I sent an email to see if it's under warranty.
What would I check with the volt meter and how? I do have the cheap harbor freight model.
What would I check with the volt meter and how? I do have the cheap harbor freight model.
dyqik
Well-Known Member
You want to check the resistance across the element while it is disconnected. It should be 10.47 Ohms for a 5500W, 240V* element (P = V²/R so R=V²/P), maybe plus/minus half an ohm. You should then measure the resistance seen across the circuit as you add more of your controller and wiring back in to the circuit if that checks out OK.
It is possible that repeatedly tripping the breaker has weakened it so that it trips below the current limit, but you need to eliminate any problems in the circuit and equipment by meter testing before you swap the breaker out.
*All heating elements etc. we use are specced at either 120V or 240V, as a) that's the largest voltage they should see, and b) that gives the highest current draw and power
It is possible that repeatedly tripping the breaker has weakened it so that it trips below the current limit, but you need to eliminate any problems in the circuit and equipment by meter testing before you swap the breaker out.
*All heating elements etc. we use are specced at either 120V or 240V, as a) that's the largest voltage they should see, and b) that gives the highest current draw and power
Also measure the resistance between the metal tubing of the element to each of the terminals. It should read infinite.
Yes, Bobby's direction is most important. Would explain GFI faulting.
augiedoggy
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https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...60379420013.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.sVZxyj
look familiar? Why would it surprise you? look at all the different chinese manufactuerers for these on alibaba... there is only a few they all sell these for well under $10 each in bulk. Why would Ebrew decide to pay more for his? Its obviously not any better quality or it wouldnt have failed on you right? He might buy them from another middleman and pay more for them and he may just be doubling his cost... Its really pretty common.
I have no proof of this because I dont have an ebrew one to compare to mine side by side but this one has all the exact manufacturers markings and machining marks from all the photos including the ones that are no longer on the sellers sites... ebrew even had some of the same photos as this manufactuerer a while back...
I bought my integrated TC based elements from this manufacturer myself for $16 a piece and all the bends and marks match the ebrew ones.
This is where buying from a place like Ebrew is supposed to pay off when he supports and replaces the defective element for you. this support and free replacements would come out of his pocket and as they say "Nothing is free" so you basically prepay for needing it since statistically many wont or wont even bother contacting him for a replacement.
its not much different than buying a used car at auction for 6 grand or waiting and buying it later from a dealer that bought it and sells it to you for 10 grand but offers some "support" and liability if something major happens to be wrong or go wrong right away. The dealer plays these odd and makes money in most cases off them.
OP
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brewprint
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When looking at that pic I posted earlier, don't you guys see the arcing?
I believe I know what happened. When I took the element apart, the rubber seal was not that tight. It probably came loose over time. I believe water came inside and caused the arc.
Though it could be a cheap Chinese issue, I believe this is from something else. I can't say for sure but it sure looks like arcs and that it burnt the element out.
I'm basically clueless as to what you guys are talking about on how to check volts and ohms.
It worked fine last batch and since it got cleaned I think water leaked in there.
Look at the arcs.
I believe I know what happened. When I took the element apart, the rubber seal was not that tight. It probably came loose over time. I believe water came inside and caused the arc.
Though it could be a cheap Chinese issue, I believe this is from something else. I can't say for sure but it sure looks like arcs and that it burnt the element out.
I'm basically clueless as to what you guys are talking about on how to check volts and ohms.
It worked fine last batch and since it got cleaned I think water leaked in there.
Look at the arcs.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
is there any burned marks on the inside of the electrical enclosure? it lo0ks like it was shorting/ arcing to something else... if it were on a gfci it should have tripped before really doing damage ?
The weld marks are most likely from the original manufacturing. The actual element ends are spot welded to the connection terminals.
I don't see anything that looks like damage from arcing. (Failure analysis of electronic components used to be part of my job.)
Brew on
First set your meter to measure ohms, and at the lowest range that is greater than 10 ohms. Place one probe on each of the screw terminals. It should measure just over 10 ohms (for a 240V 5500W element.) If that checks ok, then set your meter to the highest ohms rating, place one probe on either of the screw terminals, and the other on the metal base of the element. You should not get a reading for this. If this checks out, then leave the probe on the screw terminal, and place the other probe on the element sheath. This should also not give a reading. If you get a numerical reading for either of the last two measurements, then you have a short in the element to either the base or element sheath.
Since the element base should be electrically connected to the element sheath, and they both should be grounded, any short (even a high resistance one) would allow some of the power to flow to ground, instead of all power flowing back thru the other power lead. The GFCI detects this imbalance of current between the two power connections, and trips. This is exactly what the GFCI is meant to do. It can detect a few milliamps imbalance between two conductors that are each carrying 50A of current (they are pretty sensitive devices.)
Brew on
Also was the wire connections charred or burnt as well? Maybe you can post a pic of the wires that were attached to the element. It could be a bad crimp or something in the wiring also that will cause the breaker to trip. If you cut or trimmed too many copper wires off when wiring the element or did not use all of them in the crimp the remaining little wires can't handle the load and that will cause the breaker to trip also. Just a thought.
John
John
