Boy, did I learn a lot about beer this weekend

[signpost]

So, I participated in a homebrew competition this weekend. It wasn't a BJCP thing, though. It was organized in two rounds. The first round was the people's choice round, and then the winners from that round went on to be judged by judges of some sort (maybe BJCP judges, but not sure). I've been to beer festivals and tasted all kinds of crazy stuff from tons of pro brewers ranging from unknown nanos up to the heavy hitters in the craft beer world. And that did nothing to prepare me for what I encountered this weekend.

Basically, all of the homebrewers got a sample cup and went around and tasted everybody's beer and then voted for their favorite in each of 6 categories. I didn't taste all 70 of the beers represented, because some of them just seemed like terrible ideas. But I got around to about 30 different brews. Out of those, there were only maybe 4 or 5 that I would be happy drinking while hanging out at home. And there were at least 7 or 8 that I had to pour out immediately after taking one little sip. I mean, some of them were atrociously disgusting. And the rest were mediocre at best, and calling them mediocre is being generous.

When they finally got around to announcing the winner's of the peoples choice round (at least an hour later than planned - I think everybody was drunk or something ), they had changed the rules to have 12 total beers move on to the judging phase. I'm guessing that change was made because of how some of the most terrible beers got a whole lot of votes. None of the beers that I thought were actually good (including my own) moved on to the judging round. Not one.

This made it clear how important blind tastings really are. Small talk and chit chat are not my thing. I am terrible at it, because I despise it. Most of the people whose brews moved on to the second round were the people that stood by their brews promoting them the whole time. The voting was obviously not based strictly on the taste of the beer.

Anyway, one of the big lessons I learned from tasting so many homebrews was to limit the use of crystal malts. Every single pale ale, IPA, and amber ale I tasted had way too much crystal malt and way too low attenuation. Sickly sweet would be an understatement.

After participating in this event, I completely understand why Buffalo Wild Wings ran that commercial a while back with the mad scientist type homebrewer making disgusting beers. The number of homebrewers making really good beer is much smaller than the number that make terrible beer. Reading stuff on this forum from so many people that obviously make good beer skewed my view of the homebrewing community. This site made me think the world was full of super tasty homebrew. But I will now be much more cautious when venturing out into the homebrew galaxy.

 

[Doed]

I would seriously like to find one of these type of "competitions" to try some other peoples homebrew. It would be interesting to me to see how the beer I make compares to others.

 

[Yooper]

You should volunteer to help at a BJCP competition! Even as a steward, if they only want BJCP judges, because it really helps you be more critical of your own beers (and others.)

To be honest, most of the beers I've judged have been less than "very good". Most of them fall in the "fair" range, and some are awful.

I call this the "Ugly Baby Syndrome". You know the type- parents of the ugliest baby in the universe who think their child is a Gerber baby. The same is true of homebrewers, I think. They LOVE their baby, and think it's awesome, but a nonbiased person doesn't see the beauty the way the "parents" do.

That's one of the things I think about when people say things like "I never make a starter and I never control fermentation temperatures, and my beer is GREAT!". Oh, well, maybe it is pretty good. But more than likely, they have UBS (Ugly Baby Syndrome).

Putting your beer in a competition where honest scores and feedback are received is the best way to get a non-biased evaluation.

I've had many sub-par commercial beers, too, by the way. One microbrewery in Wisconsin is notable for the way they don't take care of the yeast, and it's easy to pick up the off-flavor. One brewpub in Texas that I've been to twice has terrible beer. It's not just homebrewers!

 

[MotorcycleMatt]

Yea I'm in a competition like that, trying to base itself off the iron chef show idea. I really expect some foul beers there.

 

[signpost]

I've had many sub-par commercial beers, too, by the way. One microbrewery in Wisconsin is notable for the way they don't take care of the yeast, and it's easy to pick up the off-flavor. One brewpub in Texas that I've been to twice has terrible beer. It's not just homebrewers!

Oh, I know. I've had some sub-par commercial beers, too.

But I think the ratio of good beer to bad beer is very different in the HBT community than it is in the wider homebrew community.

 

[Heavywalker]

I agree with yooper, I have had a few homebrews from people that they thought were great, I really struggled downing those beers in front of the person that made them. I would have dumped them out had I been alone.

I think to make anything good, whether it be beer, wine, food, etc... you have to be your own worst critic, if you can't do that you will likely make mediocre stuff that other people won't enjoy.

 

[unclevername]

I always wonder if I have UBS. I think my beer is very good and it gets good reviews from my house guests as well. But I always wonder if they are just being polite. My most credible evidence I have that my beer is good is 1) on several occasions guests who had plenty of commercial beers as an option choose my beer until it was gone before starting on the commercial brews and 2) my wife who wasn't particularly excited about me buying all this stuff is now encouraging me to do so. At any rate, even if I do have UBS I file it into the category of "ignorance is bliss"

 

[DrunkleJon]

I had a professional brewer sample 3-4 of my early non temp controlled batches (PM) and he actually gave me some good pointers. Obviously he tasted the esters from fermenting a little high, but overall was not too harsh on my beer. I, tasting one of these beers now that I make starters for almost all batches and temp control, and comparing to what I make now am amazed he was even that nice to me. They were and still are tasty, but the flaws are far more noticeable. I agree with the UBS.

I too would like to get in one of these unofficial tastings. I am a little too lenient on my brew documentation so I am certain I would have trouble getting the proper information in for a real BJCP competition.

 

[Clonefan94]

You should volunteer to help at a BJCP competition! Even as a steward, if they only want BJCP judges, because it really helps you be more critical of your own beers (and others.)

To be honest, most of the beers I've judged have been less than "very good". Most of them fall in the "fair" range, and some are awful.

I call this the "Ugly Baby Syndrome". You know the type- parents of the ugliest baby in the universe who think their child is a Gerber baby. The same is true of homebrewers, I think. They LOVE their baby, and think it's awesome, but a nonbiased person doesn't see the beauty the way the "parents" do.

That's one of the things I think about when people say things like "I never make a starter and I never control fermentation temperatures, and my beer is GREAT!". Oh, well, maybe it is pretty good. But more than likely, they have UBS (Ugly Baby Syndrome).

Putting your beer in a competition where honest scores and feedback are received is the best way to get a non-biased evaluation.

I've had many sub-par commercial beers, too, by the way. One microbrewery in Wisconsin is notable for the way they don't take care of the yeast, and it's easy to pick up the off-flavor. One brewpub in Texas that I've been to twice has terrible beer. It's not just homebrewers!

This is probably me. In fact, I can almost guarantee I have UBS. Thing is though, I'm happy with what I brew, I like it and it tastes good to me. It can't be all bad, because I constantly have friends calling and asking if I want to drink a beer, at my house of course. And I think that suits me for my life and my tastes. I think it's pretty cool that they have the competitions and the people that participate in them. It's just one of those things that doesn't really appeal to me. It probably would help me improve my beer, but really, what's that going to do, I'm pretty sure I drink too much as it is.

I have considered it a couple of times, but it always worries me. I used to love playing disc golf. Played all the time, met people that played and played wtih them. Then those people got me to join a club, then the club pushed "organized competition" And it became about always getting better. I stopped enjoying the game for what I came to enjoy it as originally. A way to get out, shut my mind off and have some fun. Maybe it's just my competetiveness, but I don't play anymore. My fear is this would happen with beer. I have my recipes, I experiment some and I brew beer I enjoy on days that I have free, and it's a similar joy I used to get from disc golf. Relax, turn my mind off to the ouside world and enjoy the day. I'm just afraid I'll turn every beer into a competition, not sure I want that.

Have any of you that do participate in Beer competitions experienced this? Has it become more about winning that really enjoying brewing? Is there a way to shut that off?

 

[Fordmi]

Ugly baby syndrome is just natural. I'm sure we all go through it in multiple aspects of life. I find that I disagree with a lot of the popular thoughts on beer so I brew for myself. If others enjoy it too, so be it.

I will admit that I've been tempted to enter my Amber in competitions though...

 

[invivoSaccharomyces]

One microbrewery in Wisconsin is notable for the way they don't take care of the yeast, and it's easy to pick up the off-flavor.

I'm curious which one this is. I've got a couple guesses...

 

[machfive55]

I don't think it is as much ugly baby syndrome as it is untrained palate. I think there are a lot of people out there who have palates that are just not up to beer judging quality, whether that is because of genetics or because they just are not trained to detect awful, off-flavors, etc.

I think there are also many homebrewers out there that can detect off things in beers that others just won't notice whether they can taste it or not, because they are not looking for it. This is more of a beer judge syndrome more than anything where you are constantly judging ever beer you drink looking for things that are maybe very subtle but if you find it, then it will really bother you. It doesn't make a beer awful or even mediocre but it can change your opinion quick.

The other thing is just opinion. I have had plenty of commercial/homebrews that were just not my thing but I would not say they were awful beers. There are some commercial beers that are very good sellers and get good reviews from beer rating sites that I just don't like. It's opinion. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

 

[Cerevisaphile]

I participated in the same event as the OP and came away with the same conclusion. All the beers there were brewed at the same big brew day event so may not represent the brewers best batches, but there were some terrible beers there. I tried to sample as many as I could and found myself dumping a lot of them after one sip. I was looking forward to the APA &IPA category but gave up trying to find a good one after three dumpers. The ones I tried were under attenuated, over caramely and had little hop aroma. I also agree that the finalists did not represent what I thought were the best beers there (there were some really good ones). This being said it was a fun event and I also learned a lot.

 

[Darwin18]

Have any of you that do participate in Beer competitions experienced this? Has it become more about winning that really enjoying brewing? Is there a way to shut that off?

If you don't think that you can handle blind criticism well, I wouldn't enter a competition. Your beer is going to be judged against the BJCP guidelines as well as the other beers in it's flight. The feedback is constructive and can really help you become a better brewer if you take the criticism as intended. If it makes you mad and you crumple up your scoresheet and toss it (I've never done that...) then you're missing out on a great resource.

If you want to try a wide range of beers from great to foul, consider stewarding for a competition. I always pour the stewards a sample and talk to them about each beer after I've finished scoring it. It helps all of us to learn and articulate what we're sensing about each beer.

 

[Marc77]

This is probably me. In fact, I can almost guarantee I have UBS. Thing is though, I'm happy with what I brew, I like it and it tastes good to me. It can't be all bad, because I constantly have friends calling and asking if I want to drink a beer, at my house of course. And I think that suits me for my life and my tastes. I think it's pretty cool that they have the competitions and the people that participate in them. It's just one of those things that doesn't really appeal to me. It probably would help me improve my beer, but really, what's that going to do, I'm pretty sure I drink too much as it is.

I have considered it a couple of times, but it always worries me. I used to love playing disc golf. Played all the time, met people that played and played wtih them. Then those people got me to join a club, then the club pushed "organized competition" And it became about always getting better. I stopped enjoying the game for what I came to enjoy it as originally. A way to get out, shut my mind off and have some fun. Maybe it's just my competetiveness, but I don't play anymore. My fear is this would happen with beer. I have my recipes, I experiment some and I brew beer I enjoy on days that I have free, and it's a similar joy I used to get from disc golf. Relax, turn my mind off to the ouside world and enjoy the day. I'm just afraid I'll turn every beer into a competition, not sure I want that.

Have any of you that do participate in Beer competitions experienced this? Has it become more about winning that really enjoying brewing? Is there a way to shut that off?

I know exactly what you mean and have experience it with sports. When it becomes job like it's never fun. Made me quit playing all sports except golf. Golf is the only game where no matter how good you get you're always playing against yourself.

I think there's a range of knowing about beer and being able to make good beer without it becoming a job. Do I need to have a chemistry degree to make good beer? No.

But like others have said (and this is for me personally) anything I can do to improve is greatly appreciated. Now will I take their advice is another thing. Hey by spending another grand you can make this better...yeah, well I'm good with not spending it and with what I'm getting. Ya know?

Someone else said it and there's a thread going around right now in that same vein. One man's trash is another man's treasure. The thread around here is So I tried to drink a Coors light today. In there are numerous people that say that every beer has a place for it. A hot summer day after mowing the grass I like a good Bud Light lime. Not a great beer and it's rare that I want one. But when I do it hits the spot. Could just be that the people that voted for that beer it just hit the spot for them on that day. Refined palate/ knowledgeable beer drinker or not.

 

[DrunkleJon]

There is also the possibility of popularity contest votes. Unfortunately with non bind tastings who the brewer is probably influences judgement too.

 

[Clonefan94]

If you don't think that you can handle blind criticism well, I wouldn't enter a competition. Your beer is going to be judged against the BJCP guidelines as well as the other beers in it's flight. The feedback is constructive and can really help you become a better brewer if you take the criticism as intended. If it makes you mad and you crumple up your scoresheet and toss it (I've never done that...) then you're missing out on a great resource.

If you want to try a wide range of beers from great to foul, consider stewarding for a competition. I always pour the stewards a sample and talk to them about each beer after I've finished scoring it. It helps all of us to learn and articulate what we're sensing about each beer.

I don't think it's a matter of being able to handle it or not. I'm a graphic designer by trade, my whole day is people criticising my work, most of them who have no where near the design credentials that a BJCP judge would have over my beer. I think my biggest concern is that I would go from brewing beer for myself, to enjoy, to brewing beer that judges would enjoy. Not sure if that makes sense, but it happens in my work all the time. My porfolio is full of pieces that I did as a project for myself. Those were the ones that were "fun" to design. Designing for someone else, is just work to me now. I dont' want beer to become work, if that makes sense.

Don't get me wrong though either, I have brewed bad beer. I hate waste, so it didn't get dumped, but I did have beer that I wouldn't let people taste.

 

[Darwin18]

I don't think it's a matter of being able to handle it or not. I'm a graphic designer by trade, my whole day is people criticising my work, most of them who have no where near the design credentials that a BJCP judge would have over my beer. I think my biggest concern is that I would go from brewing beer for myself, to enjoy, to brewing beer that judges would enjoy. Not sure if that makes sense, but it happens in my work all the time. My porfolio is full of pieces that I did as a project for myself. Those were the ones that were "fun" to design. Designing for someone else, is just work to me now. I dont' want beer to become work, if that makes sense.

Don't get me wrong though either, I have brewed bad beer. I hate waste, so it didn't get dumped, but I did have beer that I wouldn't let people taste.

If there is a big competition coming up that I'm interested in then I'll certainly do my best to brew for it and brew a beer that should meet what the judges are looking for in that style. I usually brew beers that I want to drink though and do try to stay close to style.

I will be completely honest though. At the typical competition, probably more than half the beers in a given category are going to score in the 20's. Several will be mediocre and end up below 20. Probably 10 - 15% will score in the 30's - 40's and subsequently place. If you can brew a beer to style with no off flavors you're going to score well and likely place. I don't have your recipe in front of me when I'm judging so as long as you're close to the style guidelines you'll do well - just make sure you are before you enter!

 

[MotorcycleMatt]

If there is a big competition coming up that I'm interested in then I'll certainly do my best to brew for it and brew a beer that should meet what the judges are looking for in that style. I usually brew beers that I want to drink though and do try to stay close to style.

I will be completely honest though. At the typical competition, probably more than half the beers in a given category are going to score in the 20's. Several will be mediocre and end up below 20. Probably 10 - 15% will score in the 30's - 40's and subsequently place. If you can brew a beer to style with no off flavors you're going to score well and likely place. I don't have your recipe in front of me when I'm judging so as long as you're close to the style guidelines you'll do well - just make sure you are before you enter!

Well the problem with the contest I'm in, iron brew, is that there are no categories, they would all be specialty ales since they have to contain at least one of the following : coriander seeds, basil, rosemary, and lavender. I already know what ill be brewing but its going to be a big popularity contest.

 

[Monster Mash]

Our home brew club does this at every meeting but it is well organized. All beers entered are written on a board and then organized by style, each person gets up and speaks about their beer while everyone tastes it. We all give our opinions and what can be improved it if needed and move on to the next one.

At the end we tally up the scores and give the winner a prize. Everybody walks away happy because the people that bring flawed beer learn how to fix it.

 

[GrumpySquirrel]

This event was the first we entered and made it past the first without promoting. We didn't think that was possible because it was annoying how much some people were promoting (including the eventual winner).

Still fun and got some great feedback. We did a hoppy wheat that tunes out great.

 

[Cerevisaphile]

That hoppy wheat was really good, but probably would have fit much better into the APA/IPA category. The promoting was a little annoying, the lady with the overwhelming clove saison was really pushing it and handing out peanuts. I swear she must work in marketing.

 

[signpost]

My brew was the Belgian Dubbel, btw. Right next to the OMG Cinnamon Clove Saison.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I think my biggest concern is that I would go from brewing beer for myself, to enjoy, to brewing beer that judges would enjoy.

I know exactly what you mean. A lot of the beers I brew are not perfectly in style, because beers in the style guidelines are widely available at the store. Usually I'm putting together a recipe based on what flavors I think will work well together, or brewing styles that would be Cat 23 anyway. For example, I've got an IPA in the fermenter right now that would be perfectly to style in American IPA, but my next batch on the agenda is a Rye blonde ale with northern brewer and cluster hops. My kegerator right now has a Gose, a Patersbier, apfelwein and an imperial milk stout in it right now... Not exactly built for the BJCP!

A lot of people allow style guidelines to define what they brew, and enter in competitions. I brew what I want, and enter comps if my beers happen to fit a style (or are close). I don't want to start brewing "for competition", so I don't let myself get carried away with it.

 

[GrumpySquirrel]

My brew was the Belgian Dubbel, btw. Right next to the OMG Cinnamon Clove Saison.

I voted for yours in your category.

Problem with ours in the APA/IPA category was getting drown out. Oh well, I'll be back next year!

 

[signpost]

Yeah, I probably didn't even try half of the APA/IPA category. Way too many of those. The one I remember liking was a Citra Pale Ale that was too dark, but at least not too caramelly. Decent attenuation, but the color was a bit weird.

Thanks for the vote, if you happen to remember anything specific about my Dubbel, I'd love to hear what you thought of it.