Bottling Without Priming Sugar

[NavalBrew]

Hello, I'm new here. I apologize if I missed any sort of required introductions.


I've done some looking around google and this forum for an answer to this question without any obvious results; maybe this is so basic it's stupid to ask, but I haven't seen any discussion of this anywhere:

Can you bottle on the tail end of primary fermentation, without using priming sugar, and riding off the remaining fermentables left in the wort for bottle carbonation?

The first concern raised when issues of "bottling early" arises is the problem of potential bottle bombs (though I know there's many other reasons not to). Couldn't this be remedied by simply not adding priming sugar? If your fermentation vessel is offgassing relatively small amounts of CO2, would this be enough to carbonate if thrown into a bottle?

 

[doug293cz]

This is a bad idea. There is no practical way to know how close your fermentation has actually come to its real FG, until it actually gets there. Depending on residual sugar for carbonation will almost always result in overcarbonation or undercarbonation, and only by luck would you ever get "correct" carbonation. It is a totally uncontrollable process.

The priming sugar method on the other hand is easily controllable. Ferment the wort out completely, and then add a known amount of sugar that is 100% fermentable. You can only get as much carbonation as corresponds to the amount of priming sugar added.

Edit 3/29/20. Since this thread has become active again, I need to correct the second sentence in the first paragraph. A Fast/Forced Fermentation Test will reliably predict the FG for a batch. This would allow you to determine the SG at which you need to package, in order for the remaining fermentation to result in the desired level of carbonation.
Brew on

 

[Beernik]

I agree, it's a bad idea.

If you don't want to use priming sugar, it would be better to let it ferment out and then carb it with some fresh wort using the krausening method.

 

[NavalBrew]

Okay. I definitely wouldn't do this with my beer, but was just curious about this from an academic standpoint.

 

[lpdjshaw]

Many breweries do this. They bottle or keg with a predetermined amount of gravity points still in the beer. German lagers are often carbonated this way. Some breweries that "bottle condition" will even bottle or keg before primary is completely done to reduce the amount of priming sugar needed. One advantage for these breweries is they have less occurrence of stratification of the sugar mixture in the beer as it's being transferred to the final package from the bright tank.

 

[C-Rider]

Many breweries do this. They bottle or keg with a predetermined amount of gravity points still in the beer. German lagers are often carbonated this way. Some breweries that "bottle condition" will even bottle or keg before primary is completely done to reduce the amount of priming sugar needed. One advantage for these breweries is they have less occurrence of stratification of the sugar mixture in the beer as it's being transferred to the final package from the bright tank.

And they have chemists that study what's going on to make sure they bottle at the RIGHT TIME.

 

[doug293cz]

And they have chemists that study what's going on to make sure they bottle at the RIGHT TIME.

Yep. Those chemists need to tell them exactly how much of each type of fermentable sugar is left in the wort at the time of packaging. I don't know any homebrewers who can handle this task (but if there is a way to do it I'd love to know about it.)

Brew on

 

[unionrdr]

I wouldn't do it with beer, but I did it with wines years ago. I'd ferment an apple jack with gold raisins & dandelion flowers till it was about 80-85% done. It was usually clearing nicely at that point, so I'd bottle it in some thick, heavy 750ml bottles. Then let it do a secondary in the bottles during storage to finish fermenting in said bottles & age for a year. At that time, it came out looking, tasting & performing much like an Asti. But for beer, no, it produces a lot of carbonation.

 

[GrogNerd]

Kräusening

adding unfermented wort back into the beer at bottling time for carbonation. this way you can reach FG and not have to worry about timing it correctly

you can either save some wort from that batch before pitching (takes some calculation to determine how much you'll need to save)

or brew up your next batch, use that to carbonate the last batch

 

[jawebster]

You don't have to be a scientist to chemist to understand when something should be actioned.

All you need is a hydrometer, take your reading at the start of your fermentation, let's say it's 1035... When it gets to about 1010 bottle it...

It's what I've always done and had no bottle bombs, I also after bottling place it back into my chest freezer what is well insolated I turn on a heater what is connected to my thermostat, keeping the temperature consistent... I call it my brewing chest!

You see when a fermentation is complete the reading is always 1000, so you know that only 0010 sugar is left.

Boring fact below
Majority of breweries don't use mad scientists, they collect the Co2 during the fermentation process, once complete they cold shock and filter to purify any impurities, they then inject the collected compressed Co2 back into the beer from where it came to give it the desired carbonation to the consumers satisfaction.

If you do the mad scientist way, make sure you don't drink the dregs at the bottom because it will give you the shíts

 

[doug293cz]

You don't have to be a scientist to chemist to understand when something should be actioned.

All you need is a hydrometer, take your reading at the start of your fermentation, let's say it's 1035... When it gets to about 1010 bottle it...

It's what I've always done and had no bottle bombs, I also after bottling place it back into my chest freezer what is well insolated I turn on a heater what is connected to my thermostat, keeping the temperature consistent... I call it my brewing chest!

You see when a fermentation is complete the reading is always 1000, so you know that only 0010 sugar is left.

Boring fact below
Majority of breweries don't use mad scientists, they collect the Co2 during the fermentation process, once complete they cold shock and filter to purify any impurities, they then inject the collected compressed Co2 back into the beer from where it came to give it the desired carbonation to the consumers satisfaction.

If you do the mad scientist way, make sure you don't drink the dregs at the bottom because it will give you the shíts

Sorry, but fermentations of beer almost never end at 1.000. The typical range is about 1.008 - 1.020, and depends on how much dextrin (non-fermentable sugar) and other non-fermentable dissolved solids (protein, etc.) is in the starting wort. It is possible to do what's known as a Fast Ferment Test to determine what the FG will actually be, and use that to calculate the correct SG at which to bottle for your desired level of carbonation. I won't go thru the procedure here.

Brew on

 

[ncbrewer]

Necro thread, but a worthwhile discussion.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

You see when a fermentation is complete the reading is always 1000, so you know that only 0010 sugar is left.

To add to what Doug said above, if you bottle with 10 points remaining you'll end up, at best, with WAY overcarbonated beer. More likely bottle bombs. 10 points might work for champagne in heavy bottles. Please don't try this in standard bottles.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

From Braukaiser (a reputable and well respected brewer), one gravity point gives about 0.5 volumes of CO2. Beer fermented at room temperature will have close to one volume of CO2 already in it at bottling time (from fermentation). Thus bottling with 10 points remaining will give about 6 volumes of CO2. Kaboom.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=2177.0

 

[bracconiere]

Sorry, but fermentations of beer almost never end at 1.000. The typical range is about 1.008 - 1.020

lol, unless you're cool like me!

 

[doug293cz]

lol, unless you're cool like me!

I was only talking about "normal" process beers (without added enzymes.) Yes, you can add something like amyloglucosidase (glucoamylase) in order to break down the dextrin into fermentable sugars, and get FG's of 1.000 or lower (my lowest was 0.996.)

Brew on

 

[bracconiere]

(my lowest was 0.996.)

damn, so you're cooler then me! i can't seem to get it below 1.000...(is there a guideline for getting off-topic in a necro thread?)

 

[rburrelli]

This is a bad idea. There is no practical way to know how close your fermentation has actually come to its real FG, until it actually gets there. Depending on residual sugar for carbonation will almost always result in overcarbonation or undercarbonation, and only by luck would you ever get "correct" carbonation. It is a totally uncontrollable process.

The priming sugar method on the other hand is easily controllable. Ferment the wort out completely, and then add a known amount of sugar that is 100% fermentable. You can only get as much carbonation as corresponds to the amount of priming sugar added.

Brew on

It is not a bad idea if you do a force ferment test early in the process to know what your potential final gravity will be. Then you have a good idea of when to spund.

 

[doug293cz]

It is not a bad idea if you do a force ferment test early in the process to know what your potential final gravity will be. Then you have a good idea of when to spund.

That post was from 2015, before I know about the Fast/Forced Ferment Test. My later post corrects that.

Edit: Updated my 2015 post to mention the Fast/Forced Fermentation Test.

Brew on