Bottling @ 4 vols using a counter pressure filler

[Selloum]

Hi,

Has anyone succeeded in bottling around 4 vols brews using a counter-pressure filler without losing too much carbonation?
I've been trying without any success but I have two set-ups ideas I'd like to try and would like to have your opinion on the matter.

1. Let's start with a brew @ 34ºF and a pressure of 24 PSI for 4 volumes of CO2. Now if I want to bottle with a CPBF I would need to have my bottle at a similar pressure. This is where I have been having problems because the silicone stopper just pops out due to the high pressure. The idea is to mount the counter pressure on a wall and exert downward pressure on the CFBF to avoid the stopper from popping out.

2. Same brew @ 34ºF/ 24PSI/ 4vols. Let's say I pressurize my bottle at 14 PSI and use that same pressure to push the brew out of the keg (I have a T-connector); I am left with a 10 PSI pressure difference. If I use a length of tubing with ID of 1/4 in to compensate for the 10 PSI, I would need around 12 feet of tubing to reduce foaming and loss of carbonation. Pretty much how they do it for draft beer.

In both instances, the bottles will be cold, and the tubing as cold as I can.

Thanks

P.S. Bottle conditioning is not an option as I want to apply the same science for sodas.

 

[Advance]

I have never counter pressure bottled a 4.0 volume beer, but I have done a belgian dubbel that was carbed to 3.3 in order to reach around 3.0 in the bottle (there is always a loss do to the headspace left in the bottle). Safety should be your first concern, so make sure you are wearing eye protection and are using heavy glass bottles that are rated to handle the pressures you will be dealing with. If you decide to give any of this beer away as gifts you should inform the recipients that the beer must always be kept cold in a fridge or cooler. If the beer was allowed to warm in the bottles, the saturation equilibrium pressure could become exceedingly high, like 50-60 psi @ 72F. This might cause bottle failures.

First off, the reason you have not had success trying to bottle this 4.0 volume beer is because you are using a single regulator setup with a tee connection between the gas in for the keg and the filler. This setup causes the head pressure in the keg to sharply drop during the purging process because gas is allowed to flow out of the bottle faster than the regulator can supply it. As a result CO2 comes out of solution in the keg which then causes excessive foaming during the filling process. You might be able to remedy this issue by adding a check valve between the tee and the gas in for the keg, but the for sure solution is to use a two regulator setup with either a single or dual CO2 source.

The regulator that maintains the kegs head pressure should be set to 1-2 psi above your carbonation pressure to provide a little buffer. As you fill the bottles the head pressure will dip slightly because the regulator has a pressure differential threshold that must be reached before it will being to flow more gas to the keg. You do not want the pressure to ever fall below the pressure you achieved during the carbonation process, so you will want a little buffer room.

The tubing that you use to transfer beer from the keg to the filler should not be excessively long or impart a large restriction on the movement of the beer. The keg headspace to bottle headspace pressure differential should be no more than 5psi, so your tubing should only impart 3-4 psi of line restriction. I use 5 feet of 1/4" EJ Ultra Barrier tubing, which imparts ~3.25 psi of line restriction.

The regulator that supplies the counter pressure filler should be adjusted so that pressure can build in the bottle to a point at which when the liquid valve is opened the beer neither races quickly into the bottle or get pushed back into the keg. Start with a setting that is equal to the other regulator setting (keg supply) minus the calculated restriction from your liquid tubing.

The dip tube on your filler should also reach close to the bottom of the bottles you are filling. That goal is to transfer the beer with as little disturbance as possible, so dropping the beer into the bottles from the bottles mouth is a big no no

If your filler is equipped with a adjustable PRV as opposed to a needle control valve, make sure you slowly bleed the pressure off before you remove the filler from the bottle, unless you want foam eruptions. I highly recommend replacing your PRV with a needle control valve if you have one. It makes the process much easier.

Good luck!

 

[DuncB]

I counter pressure filled some champagne bottles using the williams warn counter pressure with an elderflower fizz from the keg. That was chilled really cold 3 celsius and the bottles for 5 vols. Opened some a while ago and carbonation was fine. The pressures would be very high at room temperature for 4 vols.
I crown capped the bottles rather than corking.