Bottlers Beware --- Check Your Caps!

[GHBWNY]

I had always read that when bottling, check your bottle caps for looseness by giving the cap a little twist with your fingers. So, that's what I've always done.

Today, however, after capping the first case, my hands were constantly wet from sanitizer, bottle-overrun, etc., so when it came to the second case, I started grabbing the cap with the edge of my t-shirt to check them. Lo and behold, with the extra friction, I was finding some of the caps that seemed tight by wet-hand-only, were loose. And by "loose", I don't mean floppy loose, but just able to be turned. I replaced those caps with a different brand of cap and for some, it worked; for others, a different brand of bottle did the trick. When neither worked, I discarded the bottle. Then I went back through the first case I had bottled and re-checked each cap using the t-shirt. I found 6 more that were able to be turned and replaced those.

I suspect this has probably always been an issue, but until now, I'd been unaware of it. Which would explain the mysteriously under-carbed beer once in awhile. FWIW, just passing this along to others who bottle.

 

[gnef]

what kind of capper are you using?

I have a bench top capper that I use whenever doing the random bottle from the keg, and I have not had these kinds of issues with any of the random bottles I have and the bulk caps I've had for many years.

 

[MaxStout]

Sounds more like the capper than the caps. Is the capper's bell worn? Could be technique. Do you feel it seat when you cap?

 

[1977Brewer]

I've had 2 leakers in >300 beers bottled.

 

[BigTerp]

I have to agree with everyone else. Capper or technique issue. I'll get a flat beer maybe 1 in every 300 or so. I never check the caps after capping. Using a standard hand capper I cap each bottle nice and snug, should be able to feel the cap seat.

 

[GHBWNY]

Sounds more like the capper than the caps. Is the capper's bell worn? Could be technique. Do you feel it seat when you cap?

I have a no-name red plastic double-wing capper that came with the equipment kit from BSG. I've only used it for ~550 bottles and the bell doesn't *appear* to be worn.

As for technique, I always feel the cap seat. I have basically done kits to this point and different kits come with different caps. For this batch, I started with leftovers from other kits which had a more rounded top and those were the ones that seemed the loosest. I switched to a cap from Austin Homebrew Supply which had a wider starting spread than the other brands and it went on harder. So, I went to yet another brand which had a narrower spread and from then on I was OK.

I would definitely entertain suggestions on other brands of cappers and caps.

EDIT: I just researched my capper and it's the "Red Baron".

 

[AnOldUR]

I would definitely entertain suggestions on other brands of cappers and caps.

Quick. Grab this deal.

 

[MaxStout]

I have a no-name red plastic double-wing capper that came with the equipment kit from BSG. I've only used it for ~550 bottles and the bell doesn't *appear* to be worn.

As for technique, I always feel the cap seat. I have basically done kits to this point and different kits come with different caps. For this batch, I started with leftovers from other kits which had a more rounded top and those were the ones that seemed the loosest. I switched to a cap from Austin Homebrew Supply which had a wider starting spread than the other brands and it went on harder. So, I went to yet another brand which had a narrower spread and from then on I was OK.

I would definitely entertain suggestions on other brands of cappers and caps.

EDIT: I just researched my capper and it's the "Red Baron".

I had a Red Baron for quite a while, and it worked OK. Only had a few leakers, but I had to always be careful with alignment, making sure I was holding the capper level. Switched to a bench capper (Agata), and never looked back. It's $40 well spent.

 

[Zekk]

Quick. Grab this deal.

My wife got one like the one in the left picture for $1 at a flea market. I haven't had the guts to try it out.

My current capper is also a red baron I think. Never had a problem other than over tightening (my own fault) and having some necks break when I open the bottle and that's usually only the Anchor tear drop bottles.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

Devil's advocate here... I've had caps that turn with relatively little effort without wet hands. None of which failed to carbonate. I have had the tops of the bottles break completely off while capping though... they probably wouldn't carb, so I had to dump those.

They don't have to be He-man tight to carb. Same principal goes into why you can turn a quick-connect hose without losing the pressurized fluid or gas contained within.

 

[Hello]

I've never tried to turn my caps after capping. In theory, I would not be surprised if I could. I looked more at the way the cap sat and whether it was even. With a wing capper, unset caps would happen more if I were rushing and careless. With a bench capper, I have no problems, unless I am being careless.

 

[AnOldUR]

My wife got one like the one in the left picture for $1 at a flea market. I haven't had the guts to try it out.

That's the same way I got mine. You should give it a try. I haven't used my wing capper in years.

 

[GHBWNY]

I've never tried to turn my caps after capping. In theory, I would not be surprised if I could. I looked more at the way the cap sat and whether it was even. With a wing capper, unset caps would happen more if I were rushing and careless. With a bench capper, I have no problems, unless I am being careless.

Being susceptible to the notion that anyone who has been brewing longer than me knows more than I do, the suggestion by an "expert" to try turning the cap after capping seemed like a logical, if not simple, way to check for any looseness. It wasn't until this batch that I inadvertently discovered turning caps, which makes me wonder:

*is it the caps?
*the bottles?
*an unfortunate combination of the two?
*the capper?
*why would a capper suddenly stop working right?
*has this been an ongoing issue I just wasn't aware of?

My capper had always seemed to work OK. I'm extremely careful in centering each cap, keeping it level, seating it on the bottle mouth and crimping it firmly (a couple times TOO firmly). While I don't want to spend money unnecessarily (like ANY money spent on brewing is "necessary"), I am open to more efficient/better equipment if and when needed.

 

[GHBWNY]

That's the same way I got mine. You should give it a try. I haven't used my wing capper in years.

I can just hear Crocodile Dundee when I show him MY capper and then he sees YOURS and says, "THAT's a capper!"

 

[Hello]

Being susceptible to the notion that anyone who has been brewing longer than me knows more than I do, the suggestion by an "expert" to try turning the cap after capping seemed like a logical, if not simple, way to check for any looseness. It wasn't until this batch that I inadvertently discovered turning caps, which makes me wonder:

*is it the caps?
*the bottles?
*an unfortunate combination of the two?
*the capper?
*why would a capper suddenly stop working right?
*has this been an ongoing issue I just wasn't aware of?

My capper had always seemed to work OK. I'm extremely careful in centering each cap, keeping it level, seating it on the bottle mouth and crimping it firmly (a couple times TOO firmly). While I don't want to spend money unnecessarily (like ANY money spent on brewing is "necessary"), I am open to more efficient/better equipment if and when needed.

I wasn't implying your process is wrong to twist, I was stating I've never done it. I too take advice of those who brew, even regardless of their tenure. I just never thought to twist the caps.

 

[TwistedHops]

Before my bench top caper, I had a cheap wing caper that started to fail. The alignment with the mechanism failed and I started destroying the necks of bottles.

When it first started doing that, I immediately switched to the bench top. So worth the money.

 

[Hammy71]

Anytime I soak my caps in star-san......many twist when first applied, and that's with a Super Agata (or my red baron when I first started). After they dry, they no longer twist. Star San makes things VERY SLIPPERY. I've broken way to many thinks that slipped out of my hands when it is covered with that stuff. Really, I think your getting excited over a non issue. Don't twist the caps. Don't touch the caps. If your capper crimps around the bottles lip, your fine. What did that Papazian guy say????

 

[GHBWNY]

Anytime I soak my caps in star-san......many twist when first applied, and that's with a Super Agata (or my red baron when I first started). After they dry, they no longer twist. Star San makes things VERY SLIPPERY. I've broken way to many thinks that slipped out of my hands when it is covered with that stuff. Really, I think your getting excited over a non issue. Don't twist the caps. Don't touch the caps. If your capper crimps around the bottles lip, your fine. What did that Papazian guy say????

That's a good thought re: the StarSan, which is why I went to the t-shirt to check the caps.

I think that Papazian guy said, RDWHAHB, TIIYBHGFFLC:

"Relax, don't worry, have a home brew, that is if your beer hasn't gone flat from loose caps."

 

[GHBWNY]

I wasn't implying your process is wrong to twist, I was stating I've never done it. I too take advice of those who brew, even regardless of their tenure. I just never thought to twist the caps.

Nor was I implying that you were implying...

 

[Singletrack]

I have had the tops of the bottles break completely off while capping though... they probably wouldn't carb, so I had to dump those.

Let me imply something here: You are under-appreciating this ^
Come on now, give a "Like" where it is due!

 

[KartRacer54]

Could not get a satisfactory repeatable cap with wing capper, moved to super Agatha and broke the plastic on the first case. Built the pneumatic and never looked back!

 

[Picker]

That's the same way I got mine. You should give it a try. I haven't used my wing capper in years.

I have that exact same capper. Paid $3 for it at a flea market. They just don't make em like they use to. Cast iron beats plastic any day.

 

[GHBWNY]

My wife got one like the one in the left picture for $1 at a flea market. I haven't had the guts to try it out.

If you're not going to use it and want to sell it, I'll give you DOUBLE your money for it!

 

[BigTerp]

I've been using a red baron wing capper for 4 years. It started sticking to the top of the Sierra Nevada type bottles (short/fat) for some odd reason. Still capped fine, was just PITA to get it back off after the cap seated. I got a new one about a year ago, but still use the old red baron on every bottle except for the Sierra Nevada type. I only get a non-carbed beer maybe one in every 3 or 4 batches (10 gallon). And most of those are ones where the bottle neck breaks off when opening. Weird!! I've been wanting a bench capper for awhile, but don't see any reason to switch. I just starting kegging though, so hopefully my bottling days are behind me.

 

[GHBWNY]

Same with mine on Corona bottles. The cap went on hard and it was a struggle to release the capper from the cap. After a couple, I stopped using Corona bottles. I also experienced some cracked lips on the 7 oz. clear bottles I bought at the LHBS. 3 out of 24 in one bottling session!

Lesson: all bottles are NOT created equal.

 

[Venari]

I never check the caps after capping. Using a standard hand capper I cap each bottle nice and snug, should be able to feel the cap seat.

With the hand capper I have, if I were to feel the cap seat onto the bottle, I'd end up with a lot of broken bottles.

But this is mostly because i'm putting crown caps onto threaded bottles. I don't have access to the "proper bottle", which is why I buy all the empty pepsi bottles from others in town (When pepsi bottles are $9 before tax, people want all the "deposits" they can get), and then bottle into those.

 

[BigTerp]

I can imagine that threaded bottles would give you problems. I've never tried to cap on a threaded bottle. Do they seal well and carb up fine? Just curious.

 

[Venari]

I can imagine that threaded bottles would give you problems. I've never tried to cap on a threaded bottle. Do they seal well and carb up fine? Just curious.

If you're putting caps onto a threaded bottle, you need to learn when to "feel" when it's "good enough". Occassionally with the Labatt Blue bottles you can get a complete "seat", but if you try for that with every bottle you'll end up with a lot of broken glass.

Out of every 5 gallon batch, perhaps 1, maybe 2, bottles will not seal correctly. The rest are fine, if you can feel that "good enough" spot. If you can hear tension in the glass, you've gone just past it and should stop right away.

 

[BigTerp]

Interesting. Didn't think it was possible to use a standard crown cap on a threaded bottle. But I guess you have to make do with what you have. Nice work!!

 

[Venari]

But I guess you have to make do with what you have. Nice work!!

With shipping rates what they are, many people up here don't want to bother with "proper methods".

An engineer has nothing compared to an Inuk who doesn't want to pay air cargo rates to fix his machinery :rockin:

EDIT: to clarify, while I am half inuk, I identify mostly as "white", and have no problem spending SOME money. The above comment was regarding the OTHER inuit around town.

 

[MaxStout]

With shipping rates what they are, many people up here don't want to bother with "proper methods".

An engineer has nothing compared to an Inuk who doesn't want to pay air cargo rates to fix his machinery :rockin:

EDIT: to clarify, while I am half inuk, I identify mostly as "white", and have no problem spending SOME money. The above comment was regarding the OTHER inuit around town.

It's too bad Canadian brewers don't use stubbies anymore. Those things were damn near indestructible. I would think they'd be perfect for homebrewing--not much headroom.

CSB: I used to road trip up to Manitoba to visit friends, back in the late 70s and early 80s. The first time I was served a beer in a stubby I asked my buddies why there was no neck. They said it was to keep people from using one as a club.

 

[ImperialStout]

I was not able to take the time to read all all the replies so pardon me if someone already posted something similar. I only use the 16 oz Grolsch bottles. This may be an alternative to those who have capping issues.

If you are unfamiliar with Grolsch bottles, they have their own ceramic or plastic swing cap attached with a locking wire and uses a replaceable rubber seal. Never had a problem. Switched to the Grolsch bottles because I liked the 16 oz serving size and found capping a pain. Sometimes one or two of the usual 12 oz brown bottles did not carbonate, broke when capping or broke when opening. Grolsch bottles sell for about $1 a bottle (some sellers ask for $5 or more but I doubt they get it) or, if you are willing to wait, 7 cents a bottle from a redemption center. It helps if you bring in some home brew for the guys at the redemption center. That way they are more likely to save the Grolsch bottles for you. As an added benefit you WILL come across some very interesting European self capping bottles with permanent labels "painted" on and may find some very unusual bottles as well, some in 24 oz or 32 oz. The only draw back to Grolsch bottles is they are green. Beer will skunk in green or clear bottles if stored for a long time in the light. Not so with brown bottles. I store my beer in the Grolsch case boxes. Grolsch also made beer in brown bottles but don't any more. There are also several European brewers that bottle their beer in self capping brown bottles.