Bottle Carbonation: Temperature at bottling

[MrHadack]

I cold crashed a batch of beer to get some more clarity. I have 5 gallons at 40F right now. The primary fermentation was at 65F. Two questions:

Should I let the beer warm up to room temperature before bottling, or can I bottle it immediately while it is at 40F?

If I did bottle it at 40F, would I enter that number when calculating the amount of priming sugar to use, or use the primary fermentation temperature of 65F?

I'm looking to get 2.2 vols.

 

[plankbr]

I bottle directly after cold crashing. Make my priming sugar solution, put in bottling bucket, add beer on top of that and bottle. Sitting for 2 weeks bottled at room temp and they are always carbed up and ready to drink.

 

[MrHadack]

Perfect, thanks. So if I am using this calculator to determine the amount of priming sugar, I just enter 40F for the temp of the beer and I'm good to go?

http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html?16524248#tag

 

[Yooper]

Perfect, thanks. So if I am using this calculator to determine the amount of priming sugar, I just enter 40F for the temp of the beer and I'm good to go?

http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator/carbonation.html?16524248#tag

No, use 68 degrees (or the highest temperature the beer reached).

I always say how much I hate those calculators (priming "to style" can be ridiculous- from flat beer to bottle bombs) but if you're going to use one, make sure the temperature you enter is the highest temperature the beer reached as it tries to guestimate the amount of residual co2. Also, keep in mind that if something seems whacky, like 8 ounces of priming sugar, or 2 ounces, then common sense should prevail!

Example- look up "American Brown". They say 1.5-2.5 volumes as an acceptable amount of carbonation. Really? 1.5 volumes is almost totally flat. Most people who drink commercial bottled beer don't want it flat. It's fine in a true cask ale, but opening a bottle of flat beer is not what most of us would like!

 

[MrHadack]

Thanks, Yooper.

I was confused about this because I understand about the residual CO2 in the beer, and how it is more soluble at lower temps. But that's happening when the CO2 is being produced (primary fermentation). I figured it wouldn't absorb more CO2 just by chilling it afterward, but most of the calculators I looked at said "current" temperature of the beer. It just didn't seem to make sense to me. I think I am clear on this now.

So in this case, I fermented at 65F but then after a week and a half I warmed it up to about 68F to let it finish and have the yeast clean up after itself a bit. So I should calculate the amount of sugar for 2.2 vols using 68F. In this case, that would be about 3.5 oz.

 

[drawdy10]

Yup I think you will be close with that 3.5 oz mrHaddock but be careful and actually measure your volume of beer in the bottling bucket them make your calculations, you never know how much trub you will end up leaving behind and lose volume.

 

[MrHadack]

Yup I think you will be close with that 3.5 oz mrHaddock but be careful and actually measure your volume of beer in the bottling bucket them make your calculations, you never know how much trub you will end up leaving behind and lose volume.

Right on. I always wait to see how much I have in the bucket before doing the final calculation. In this case I only had 4.75 gallons. I ended up wanting to go a little higher with the carb (2.3 - 2.4) so I ended up with 3.7oz corn sugar.

 

[Publius]

Right on. I always wait to see how much I have in the bucket before doing the final calculation. In this case I only had 4.75 gallons. I ended up wanting to go a little higher with the carb (2.3 - 2.4) so I ended up with 3.7oz corn sugar.

But I always thought it was advisable to add your priming solution to your bottling bucket before racking the beer (so the flowing action of the beer would evenly distribute the priming solution)?

 

[billl]

" I figured it wouldn't absorb more CO2 just by chilling it afterward, but most of the calculators I looked at said "current" temperature of the beer. "

As with most things in brewing..... it depends. The beer will eventually absorb CO2 and reach equalibrium for whatever temp you are storing it at. The key word there is "eventually". It will take a good 3 weeks at a fixed temp to reach that level (just like if you set the pressure on a keg). So, if you crash cooled it and bottled, you should use the highest temp you were at before bottling. If you lagered it for a month, then the lagering temp would be a better approximation.

"But I always thought it was advisable to add your priming solution to your bottling bucket before racking the beer (so the flowing action of the beer would evenly distribute the priming solution)?"

If you are adding the sugar solution after, then you should be sure to stir well. It seems that most people toss it in at the beginning and let the swirling beer do the work for them.

 

[Hello]

The reason I was told to add priming sugar before racking was to allow it to "naturally" stir. People (me) can over stir and oxidize the beer so I can see why all kits I've used will say to rack over sugar solution. That said, if not using a kit then I found I do need to rack to the bucket first to see how much beer I really have. I stir as slow as possible once I pour my sugar in.

Also Yooper, thanks for explaining the fact that the temp needs to be shown at the highest fermenting temp. I didn't know that and actually used 45 F and got an inane amount of sugar to add. I just didn't quite know why.

 

[highgravitybacon]

Yooper, while I agree that 1.5 volumes is a bit on the low side, it really does enhance the beer to be carbonated appropriate for a given style. Sam Smith Oatmeal Stout -- very low carbonation in the bottle, perhaps 1.8-2 volumes. Perfectly carbonated. Any more and you loose the nice smoothness that beer is supposed to have.

For competition brewing, it's better to err on the side of overcarbonation than under. I have gotten dinged for low carbonation in beers that were perfectly carbonated simply because the judges are either 1. getting overcarbed examples and thinking that's normal, 2. not understanding bjcp carbonation guidelines, or 3. having the beer sit a bit too long prior to drinking or 4. using plastic cups with lots of nucleation sites that kick all the co2 out of the beer. Option 5 is of course: It's just undercarbed by me.

What I've noticed is that the threshold for undercarbed beers is much lower than over carbed beers. They're only drinking 2 oz or so in competition. It's a lot easier to drink overcarbed 2 oz than overcarbed 12 oz. If they pour a full flight of beers, the last beer might have off gassed a bunch of co2 prior to them drinking it anyway, so by the time it comes around the beer which was initially overcarbed is now perfectly carbonated.

My personal threshold where I think a beer is "under carbed" is right about 1.9 volumes it seems. Figure that 0.9 is basically room temp beer fully fermented in a carboy. That's flat. So 1.5 is hardly more. About 2.0 is perfect for my taste for british styles, 2.3-2.4 for american ambers, browns. 2.5-2.7 for pale styles like lager, hybrid, or ipa. 3-3.3 for heavy, dark wheats or belgian beers, and 3.5 for german mid strength wheats or wits.

I've tried using "temp at bottling" without much success. Like Yooper suggested, I take an appx temp of fermentation. 64F fermentation = 'temp at bottling' of 64F even if I held it cold for a week or two prior.

Really though, without making the same beer over and over, it's kind of a crap shoot. The best way is to either keg and bottle or get a 2L and use a carbonator cap to dial in the carbonation if you're doing competition beers.

That's my treatise on the subject.