Boil kettle condenser - no overhead ventilation needed

[day_trippr]

I'd have to think about the dark beer thing, but obviously avoiding meloidinan conversion isn't as much of an issue wrt color once you've gone past ~10 SRM.

Wrt efficiency, unless you're going to simply extend the boil to make up for the reduced boil-off rate you can't sparge as much hence efficiency almost has to drop...

Cheers!

 

[Franktalk]

If brewing dark beers are there any benefits?

How does it reduce efficiency? Perhaps a lower sparge amount since preboil is lower?

Yes, because the reason for lower boil off is caused by needing less heat to maintain your boil, you lower the thermal stress on your wort. Some benefits are less damage to heading and flavor compounds in the wort. Your beer will be better in many ways.

As an added bonus, you'll use less energy.

As far as efficiency goes, all you have to do is adjust your sparge and your efficiency should remain at what it was previously on your system.

 

[aeviaanah]

Cool thanks for the info guys if anyone has a more in depth look on wort heat stress I’d like to give it a read. I believe Kunze did some work on this? Can anyone reference book/chapter?

This is the second time revisiting this on our 6bbl system. At 40deg from our cold liquor tank, this calculates our to around 90 gal waste water. Does anyone have ideas for reusing this water? Perhaps for cleaning? Not sure I want to collect and re cool as this will pretty much eliminate the power savings..

What percent boil off reduction are we seeing on average?

 

[Paulaner]

Cool thanks for the info guys if anyone has a more in depth look on wort heat stress I’d like to give it a read. I believe Kunze did some work on this? Can anyone reference book/chapter?

This is the second time revisiting this on our 6bbl system. At 40deg from our cold liquor tank, this calculates our to around 90 gal waste water. Does anyone have ideas for reusing this water? Perhaps for cleaning? Not sure I want to collect and re cool as this will pretty much eliminate the power savings..

What percent boil off reduction are we seeing on average?

Kunze mentions TBI multiple times, mainly in Chapter 3 though. Also, read his entire book and you'll learn the waste water recycling procedures.

 

[WesBrew]

If brewing dark beers are there any benefits?

How does it reduce efficiency? Perhaps a lower sparge amount since preboil is lower?

speaking brewhouse efficiency or pitching-OG & using same starting volume/sparge, sugars in wort would be more diluted because less water was boiled off. to finish with correct volume of wort, yeah, you'd have to sparge with less. then your mash efficiency will go down a bit. so to hit target numbers and have the correct amount of finished beer we'll have to make minor adjustments to grain bill.
My recipies are based on the numbers I hit, around 75%. I get that because of sparging with extra water to get more extraction and boiling off all the excess water. my GAS/OPEN POT boil-off was typically around 18%, which is way higher than a brewery. will be much lower when I switch

 

[Franktalk]

My boil off rate is 5.2% per hour with the condenser going and a rolling boil.

speaking brewhouse efficiency or pitching-OG & using same starting volume/sparge, sugars in wort would be more diluted because less water was boiled off. to finish with correct volume of wort, yeah, you'd have to sparge with less. then your mash efficiency will go down a bit. so to hit target numbers and have the correct amount of finished beer we'll have to make minor adjustments to grain bill.
My recipies are based on the numbers I hit, around 75%. I get that only because of sparging with extra water to get more extraction and boiling off all the excess water. my boil-off is typically around 18%, which is way higher than a brewery.

That seems excessive to me.

 

[aeviaanah]

Kunze mentions TBI multiple times, mainly in Chapter 3 though. Also, read his entire book and you'll learn the waste water recycling procedures.

Thanks. I read quite a bit today regarding TBI. Looks like you can RO filter this or use it to lubricate belts

 

[WesBrew]

My boil off rate is 5.2% per hour with the condenser going and a rolling boil.



That seems excessive to me.

that was my boil off on the gas/open pot system. my electric/condenser setup isn't done

 

[mstevens]

I built and tested my setup this weekend. I am running a pump off of my HLT tank as the input water and draining into a bucket. Boil off was at 1/2 gallon for 60 min boil.

SEAFLO DC Diaphragm Pump - 12v, 3.0 GPM, 45PSI w/Automatic Switch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MUXMF40/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_edZ2DbWRHXST1

 

[mstevens]

I built and tested my setup this weekend. I am running a pump off of my HLT tank as the input water and draining into a bucket. Boil off was at 1/2 gallon for 60 min boil.

SEAFLO DC Diaphragm Pump - 12v, 3.0 GPM, 45PSI w/Automatic Switch https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MUXMF40/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_edZ2DbWRHXST1

Well that pump stopped working about 45 min into the boil. I can't say I would recommend that one

 

[day_trippr]

Fixed link to above https://www.amazon.com/Seaflo-DC-Diaphragm-Pump-Automatic/dp/B01MUXMF40

First thought would be the diaphragm failed, but santoprene (used for the diaphragm on that pump) has a pretty solid working temperature range (surprisingly high, actually). Maybe some other part failed?

Cheers!

 

[Spartan1979]

Fixed link to above https://www.amazon.com/Seaflo-DC-Diaphragm-Pump-Automatic/dp/B01MUXMF40

First thought would be the diaphragm failed, but santoprene (used for the diaphragm on that pump) has a pretty solid working temperature range (surprisingly high, actually). Maybe some other part failed?

Cheers!

If he was using the pump to supply water to his condenser, temperature shouldn't even be an issue. Hopefully he's using cold water.

 

[WesBrew]

I decided on trying a 2" T into 1.5" connection with 9gph 80degree spray nozzle. will supply cold water from garden hose from faucet, drain to sink. was a bunch of parts from five different places. some parts were out of stock on the two known brewing hardware places. ordered heating element parts as well. post up pic when I'm done.

 

[WesBrew]

some parts started rolling in. I ordered most of this on Brundog parts list. the nipple is 2.5" looking back last night noticed around page 8 that some were using a 1.5" nipple. is there an issue here with nozzle height?

 

[BrunDog]

Longer shouldn't hurt much. Ideally, the spray cone hits the wall just below the T entrance to prevent that water getting back into your beer.

 

[WesBrew]

2.5 nipple definitely too long. Mocked up and I can’t even see the nozzle. It’s below the opening

 

[WesBrew]

Installed. Album of adding a condenser and element. The bit came apart halfway through first hole. Did both with a dremel and sandpaper. Lots of work but looks pretty good. https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/0viKAyvbTSCIIatW5lSnRg.Zn5P7LLqme16cJ-o0srWEO

 

[FrostyBeach]

I drilled 6 holes with that same sort of carbide bit. Correct slow speed and oil. Slow down

 

[BrunDog]

Good stuff - well done. Keep in mind you don’t need a full size hose to feed the condenser. The amount of flow is so slow that a 1/8” OD tube would successfully supply it at pressure.

 

[WesBrew]

Good stuff - well done. Keep in mind you don’t need a full size hose to feed the condenser. The amount of flow is so slow that a 1/8” OD tube would successfully supply it at pressure.

I got a little burned out trying to get all of these parts together, couldn't figure out what I needed to run a small water line from the faucet.

 

[WesBrew]

Updated photo album with test. Rocking pretty good. The close nipple appears to have the nozzle perfect. My garden hose idea sucks. Pita to thread a stiff gh into the elbow. Suggestions on a 3/8 water line and fittings/adapter from condenser to faucet male thread? also have male gh adapter for sink faucet

 

[Mybuddypete]

Updated photo album with test. Rocking pretty good. The close nipple appears to have the nozzle perfect. My garden hose idea sucks. Pita to thread a stiff gh into the elbow. Suggestions on a 3/8 water line and fittings/adapter from condenser to faucet male thread? also have male gh adapter for sink faucet

3/8" John Guest to 1/2"MNPT
3/4" GHT Female x 1/2" NPTF Female
You'll need to either change your fitting on your condenser to a 3/4" GHT Male x 1/2" NPTF Male or make a double female ended garden hose.

 

[crane]

I brewed on my newly upgraded rig yesterday and successfully used my condenser with wort for the first time. It was interesting how steam was escaping from between the lid and BK before I had the condenser running as I was approaching boil. Once the condenser turned on there was no more steam coming out. I mounted the TC a little too high and the TC clamp prevents the lid from sitting down all the way, so I actually have a bit of gap there. So for any of the people that are asking about needing to seal the lid, nope not needed.

 

[Bobby_M]

It looks like you could have rotated the clamp just a little bit to get more lid clearance.

 

[day_trippr]

^was thinking the same thing^, just can't tell if there was a reason for the orientation...

Cheers!

 

[crane]

It looks like you could have rotated the clamp just a little bit to get more lid clearance.

I did. There was still a gap.

 

[Genuine]

I've been considering doing this heavily as well as upgrading from my keggle to a 15 gallon kettle and adding this in to make brewing in the basement a bit easier and less humid.

 

[mstevens]

If he was using the pump to supply water to his condenser, temperature shouldn't even be an issue. Hopefully he's using cold water.

Yep is was cold water from the Hlt. My process is now to fill the hlt with cold water after I transfer the hot water to my mash tun for cleaning. As for the pump, I tried a few other configurations and now have it working. I started with 1/4 tube from the pump to the nozzle, in that configuration the pump overheated. The working configuration is 3/8 hose with a tee to the nozzle split to a return to the hlt. I put a pressure gauge inline at the nozzle to measure the pressure, I drive back pressure with a ball valve at the Hlt where the hose is connected for the return. I also placed a small pc fan on the pump to move air across it.

 

[BrunDog]

Since the flow is so low, the pump is practically dead-headed. You would be better off with a proper pump than the bleed-off and fan in terms of long term durability.

 

[mstevens]

Since the flow is so low, the pump is practically dead-headed. You would be better off with a proper pump than the bleed-off and fan in terms of long term durability.

This pump works up to 40 psi. I have been running the pressure at 30 into the nozzle. Any suggestions on the right pump?

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I brewed on my newly upgraded rig yesterday and successfully used my condenser with wort for the first time. It was interesting how steam was escaping from between the lid and BK before I had the condenser running as I was approaching boil. Once the condenser turned on there was no more steam coming out. I mounted the TC a little too high and the TC clamp prevents the lid from sitting down all the way, so I actually have a bit of gap there. So for any of the people that are asking about needing to seal the lid, nope not needed.

View attachment 657086

View attachment 657087

That is some elaborate plumbing.

 

[rnorman57]

I brewed on my newly upgraded rig yesterday and successfully used my condenser with wort for the first time. It was interesting how steam was escaping from between the lid and BK before I had the condenser running as I was approaching boil. Once the condenser turned on there was no more steam coming out. I mounted the TC a little too high and the TC clamp prevents the lid from sitting down all the way, so I actually have a bit of gap there. So for any of the people that are asking about needing to seal the lid, nope not needed.

View attachment 657086

View attachment 657087

Curious what the triclamp in the center of the lid is for?

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Curious what the triclamp in the center of the lid is for?

Kettle additions?

 

[crane]

Curious what the triclamp in the center of the lid is for?

CIP Spray ball for cleaning. One on the MT lid as well.

In terms of kettle additions, unscrewing a too hot to touch TC clamp is a waste of time as opposed to lifting the lid for 1.5 seconds.

 

[BrunDog]

I brewed on my newly upgraded rig yesterday and successfully used my condenser with wort for the first time. It was interesting how steam was escaping from between the lid and BK before I had the condenser running as I was approaching boil. Once the condenser turned on there was no more steam coming out. I mounted the TC a little too high and the TC clamp prevents the lid from sitting down all the way, so I actually have a bit of gap there. So for any of the people that are asking about needing to seal the lid, nope not needed.

View attachment 657086

View attachment 657087

@crane... tell us about the hard piping. Welded ferrules?

 

[crane]

@crane... tell us about the hard piping. Welded ferrules?

No welding going on here. All silver soldering. Previously installed fittings on these kettles were all 1/2" npt couplings that have been upgraded to TC with an adapter. New fittings added in the last year are all TC ferrules that were soldered in. I added 2 ports to the bottom of each kettle using the flare out/pull in method so the ferrules are flush with the bottom of the kettles.

As for the piping, I got a seller on AliExpress to drill out TC end caps to the ID of the tubing I used and I finished them off by drilling half way through to the OD of the tubing so the caps would sit nicely on the end of the pipe for soldering. I only fabricated the straight pieces. I bought all the T's, 90's, and 45s off of AliExpress.

 

[BrunDog]

Crafty! I've been hoping someone would make solder-on ferrules! I've looked for off-the-shelf ferrules, but they don't exist. Existing ones would require drilling to facilitate silver-soldering.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

CIP Spray ball for cleaning. One on the MT lid as well.

In terms of kettle additions, unscrewing a too hot to touch TC clamp is a waste of time as opposed to lifting the lid for 1.5 seconds.

Duh, I thought about that but I just can't pass up a chance to stick my foot in my mouth. Which CIP did you use?

 

[crane]

Duh, I thought about that but I just can't pass up a chance to stick my foot in my mouth. Which CIP did you use?

https://a.aliexpress.com/5RN4gLQC

 

[fun4stuff]

Are you guys using the steam Slayer for this (https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/steamslayer.htm?Click=6524)?

What about the condenser boss? https://www.brew-boss.com/Condenser-Boss-Boil-Kettle-Condenser-p/cb-bb-apmount.htm

You still a hole in your pot, insert the T and gasket, then clamp it.on?