Blood of Kali / Please critique my Black Ale recipe

[PistolsAtDawn]

Good Morning Ladies and Gents,

I'd love to have some feedback regarding the following recipe. This is a copypasta from a BeerSmith HTML file, so the formatting of the text might be funky even though I've tried to adjust it.

What I'm going for is a full bodied, roasty, spicy (I may add some peppers to this), hoppy Cascadian Dark / American Black Ale.

I haven't written too many recipes yet, so any and all suggestions and constructive criticism would be great and I would be most appreciative! Thank you in advance!

Type: All Grain
Batch Size (fermenter): 6.00 gal
Boil Size: 7.31 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Equipment: Stainless Kegs (10 Gal/37.8 L) - All Grain
End of Boil Volume 6.76 gal
Final Bottling Volume: 5.25 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
16 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 72.7 %
2 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 9.1 %
2 lbs Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.1 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.5 %
1 lbs Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 5 4.5 %
0.25 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 6 8.7 IBUs
0.25 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 7 8.5 IBUs
0.25 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 8.1 IBUs
0.25 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 9 7.4 IBUs
0.25 oz Millenium [14.25 %] - Boil 40.0 min Hop 10 6.8 IBUs
0.25 oz Millenium [14.25 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 11 5.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Millenium [14.25 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 12 4.7 IBUs
0.25 oz Millenium [14.25 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 2.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 2.4 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safbrew T-58 Yeast 15
1.00 oz Northdown [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.094 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.094 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.023 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.3 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 11.2 %
Bitterness: 55.2 IBUs Calories: 323.2 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 46.9 SRM

Mash Profile

Mash Name: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Full Body Total Grain Weight: 22 lbs
Sparge Water: 3.08 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Protein Rest Add 7.38 gal of water at 130.3 F 122.0 F 30 min
Saccharification Heat to 156.0 F over 15 min 156.0 F 30 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F 10 min
Sparge Step: Fly sparge with 3.08 gal water at 168.0 F

 

[Double_D]

I"d take the middle hop additions and move them to the end. My philosiphy is you don't efficiently use the bittering qualities and you boil away most of the flavor. I'd do everything between 15 and flameout followed by lots of dryhopping. The 90min boil is good though. If you change the hop additions at 20 min and after to flavor additions in beersmith I've found it's more realistic in terms of bitterness on the palate. And I'd boil the oz of warrior for the whole 90 min.

 

[thedrewski86]

Definitely take DD's hop advise. Spreading them out like that won't really accomplish anything besides stressing you out on brewday. I would cut the carapils back as well. You've got some crystal and carafa, that should do you just fine for body and color.
Looks tasty though!

 

[bruin_ale]

Not sure how roasty you're going for, but I used 1lb carafa in my black IPA and it was just enough roast to blend with the hop flavors and so black you can't see through it.

 

[PistolsAtDawn]

Awesome! Thanks for the responses everyone!

DD, I follow your logic for the hops. I do not disagree with you, but I do want to explain why I structured the hop additions this way: I'm trying a much-less-aggressive "Continuous Hop" method. I'm more curious than any other reason. This thread (post #88 onward) has me wanting to try this despite common wisdom that it's not necessary. I would do a more frequent hop addition, but that really does add to one's stress level without some sort of hop addition automation.

thedrewski86, I hope that with the protein rest I won't need as much dextrine malt. I'll likely take your advice and scale that back.

bruin_ale, I think I'll scale back the carafa as you suggested. I don't want the roastiness to be overwhelming.

 

[Double_D]

You can find on youtube sam caligione's plan for an automated hopping device for continuous hopping. It's just a pvc tube an auger and a timer or something like that. I don't understand how it would be less aggressive though. You'll still have the IBU you're shooting for. I can say though, FWH has changed my IPAs and they're much better now. Back on topic, I don't think you get the same richness of flavor with a continuous hop. It's like the beer ends up having this syrup taste (that's what I'd describe the dogfish head beers as and I'm not a fan that brewery) which I don't particularly care for. Pliny the Elder clones I've read do the same thing though and I'm a huge fan of that. But the best IPA in vegas does FWH and late additions as well as lots of dry hop much like the guys at Stone. Sooo... I'd say it's six of one and a half a dozen of the other. Maybe next time try it my way age them both for a couple months and try them side by side.



edit: You know, I thought about it. Malt forward in a big IPA would be pretty sweet and since the hop profile is different maybe that's why I call it syrupy and you call it less aggressive? Either way, I'd like to find out what happens.

 

[PistolsAtDawn]

Double_D, I actually had planned on doing this recipe both ways, so I'll let you know if I can taste any difference. I actually really do like the 90 Minute and the Pliny. I won't be building anything additional for this purpose just yet (my brew buddies and I just spend hundreds on new equipment), but I'd sure like to.

I know I can just do a search, but while I have your attention, can you please explain what your thoughts are on FWH? What tangible difference have you noticed? I can't seem to understand how simply adding hops to the brew kettle as you drain your MLT would make that much of a difference because, as you said with the earlier hop additions in my recipe, wouldn't it just boil away most of the flavor?

Not arguing, just curious what your opinion is.

 

[Double_D]

It steeps into the wort and even though you do a 90 min boil it's got a more rounded bitterness. It's like it hits your palate more evenly than those IPAs that people do tons of hops and just go for something that's all bitter and nasty. I've noticed a better balance and hop flavor. But you're not trying to save anything from your bittering hops anyway. All the volatile flavor compounds are gone after a half hour anyway.

You know when you make a gravy in a pan after searing a bunch of chicken or beef and then you throw some mushrooms in there and deglaze with a little wine, you get that really rich flavor but it still tastes like mushroom gravy? It's like that. You have a really good base to build from.

 

[PistolsAtDawn]

I'm simply calling the proposed schedule "less aggressive" because the usual Continuous Hop method that I've read about recommends an every-three-minute hop addition. I don't have that much patience without some sort of automation tool.

I don't care for really bitter and nasty beer either. I can't drink an Arrogant Bastard.

Fair enough, thanks for the explanation! I'll have to give that a shot sometime.