Blichmann Alternatives

[ACE1967]

Hi, first-time poster. Please forgive me if this topic has been covered exhaustively elsewhere, but I couldn't find a thread that specifically covered it.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a top-of-the-line brew kettle? I'm looking at Blichmann, but I want to know if there are any alternatives, and how those would stack up against Blichmann products in terms of price, quality and ease of use.

Any information would be helpful and greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[stamandster]

For me I'd buy either a Penrose Kettle http://brewhemoth.com/penrose-kettle for the larger size and if going for 44qt go with a Bayou Classic http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VXHKMC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[bad67z]

Beware of the...




Troll

 

[cscade]

There's nothing else on the market comparable to the Blichmann stuff. There's plenty of kettle options in similar sizes, but the Blichmann gear is specialized beyond anything else. If that's worth it to you, go with them for sure.

The cost can be extremely prohibitive, but if you want the best, that's it.

 

[cscade]

I should add that you should also consider Stout Tanks, although their product is fundamentally different and not American made.

 

[nbolmer]

Blichmann makes excellent kettles, especially if you want a complete, ready-to-go solution. I've been using Polarware with swagelok fittings for... forever (manufactured by St. Pats, back when they were doing homebrew equipment), and it's been excellent as well. You won't go wrong with either.

 

[tknice]

There's nothing else on the market comparable to the Blichmann stuff. There's plenty of kettle options in similar sizes, but the Blichmann gear is specialized beyond anything else. If that's worth it to you, go with them for sure.

The cost can be extremely prohibitive, but if you want the best, that's it.

I'd have to agree. I started with a 9 gallon Bayou Classic Pot pot and it was great--hard to beat the price of $86 for stainless steel but the Blichmann has great features like a site glass, thermometer, and that valve with the snap-in dip tube that pulls right from the bottom which is so nice.

It is definitely a lot of money but look at it this way, you will have it for many, many, many years.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Hi, first-time poster. Please forgive me if this topic has been covered exhaustively elsewhere, but I couldn't find a thread that specifically covered it.

Does anyone have any recommendations for a top-of-the-line brew kettle? I'm looking at Blichmann, but I want to know if there are any alternatives, and how those would stack up against Blichmann products in terms of price, quality and ease of use.

Any information would be helpful and greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I'll put my kettles head to head with Blichmann kettles any day. We offer a nice height to width ratio, same material thickness and welded fittings (I think Blichmann has weldless).

 

[cscade]

@SpikeBrewing it really looks like you're on the right track! Have you considered offering an integral sight glass and dip tube option and creating some real market competition for Blichmann? I think the OP really points out a need for some competition here.

 

[NervousDad]

I'll put my kettles head to head with Blichmann kettles any day. We offer a nice height to width ratio, same material thickness and welded fittings (I think Blichmann has weldless).

D'oh I wish I would have known about you last week before I ordered my polar ware they look like very nice kettles and very nice price.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

@SpikeBrewing it really looks like you're on the right track! Have you considered offering an integral sight glass and dip tube option and creating some real market competition for Blichmann? I think the OP really points out a need for some competition here.

We can weld in a fitting for a sightglass. Right now it's a 'custom' order but we're hoping to have it as a standard kettle in the future.

D'oh I wish I would have known about you last week before I ordered my polar ware they look like very nice kettles and very nice price.

Thank you for the kind words! I just don't see where the $200 in additional price between us and Blichmann comes from.

 

[l3asturd]

Do your kettles have aluminum sandwhiched between stainless (tri-ply)on the bottom? Just curious.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

I do have kettles available with tri-clad bottoms

 

[Rbeckett]

I do have kettles available with tri-clad bottoms

What is the benefit of the tri clad bottoms? Any empirical data or is it all anecdotal? Is the thermal transfer going to be that much different? Not looking to start an argument or flame war with such an open ended question, just having the same purchase questions and trying to unserstand the pricing and value of the different options. Also brings the point of should I have the fittings installed, or do the machine work myself. Would the quality of and location of the fitting be improved if I do it myself? Probably not, and I may or may not have the right bit so it gets added by default right now. Thanks for the BK/MLT materials insight guys.
Bob

 

[Markd27]

The thing I like about Blichmann is that all of their products, especially their kettles, are part of system. They are designed from the ground up for homebrewers, these aren't re-purposed stock pots with some couplers slapped together. Each component of the Boilermaker is top of the line, and well engineered. You really need to own one to appreciate it. With that said, there really is no comparable product out there, but it would be nice if there were more high-end options!

 

[l3asturd]

From what I know, but can't reference, tri-ply is the best thing to use when heating large volumes, but I can't find any real testing to prove that. It'd be cool to see a 10 gallon comparison between two kettles, one being all stainless and one tri-ply

 

[Markd27]

Thank you for the kind words! I just don't see where the $200 in additional price between us and Blichmann comes from.

Maybe the standard three-piece stainless valve, real-glass protected sight glass, adjustable thermometer and made in USA factor?

 

[JeepDiver]

I'll put my kettles head to head with Blichmann kettles any day. We offer a nice height to width ratio, same material thickness and welded fittings (I think Blichmann has weldless).

Where do your kettles come from? For me Made In the USA is worth a few extra bucks

 

[SpikeBrewing]

What is the benefit of the tri clad bottoms? Any empirical data or is it all anecdotal? Is the thermal transfer going to be that much different? Not looking to start an argument or flame war with such an open ended question, just having the same purchase questions and trying to unserstand the pricing and value of the different options. Also brings the point of should I have the fittings installed, or do the machine work myself. Would the quality of and location of the fitting be improved if I do it myself? Probably not, and I may or may not have the right bit so it gets added by default right now. Thanks for the BK/MLT materials insight guys.
Bob

In my opinion there is only one real advantage of the tri-clad bottom kettles and it's that they can be used on an induction stove top. They sit perfectly flat and therefore are perfect for induction. You could also argue that they heat more evenly because of the sandwiched aluminum.

I have yet to do the heat transfer calculations but until then my stance is that they will actually heat more slowly then the single layered kettles. The only reason I carry them is because the market asks for them. Personally I would never buy one.

Maybe the standard three-piece stainless valve, real-glass protected sight glass, adjustable thermometer and made in USA factor?

Where do your kettles come from? For me Made In the USA is worth a few extra bucks

I won't argue that the 3-piece valve, glass thermo and sight glass may be nicer but that's why I offer my kettles without them. You can go out and purchase those more expensive items if you'd like them. But is any of that absolutely needed for brewing; no. I try and offer the least expensive option out there. The one advantage that we have over Blichmann is that we offer welded fittings. I'm just not sold on weldless.

As for Made in the USA... Unfortunately my kettles, as well as every other kettle out there (again unfortunately) comes from China. I have talked to local shops and they laugh when you tell them what you need a kettle made for. As for Blichmann I couldn't find on their website that the kettles were made in the US, just that they try to purchase from the US as much as possible.

Not trying to start a flame war but I'm proud of my products and personally I'm not sold on the price tag of the Blichmann.

-Ben

 

[Markd27]

I won't argue that the 3-piece valve, glass thermo and sight glass may be nicer but that's why I offer my kettles without them. You can go out and purchase those more expensive items if you'd like them. But is any of that absolutely needed for brewing; no. I try and offer the least expensive option out there. The one advantage that we have over Blichmann is that we offer welded fittings. I'm just not sold on weldless.

I understand where you are coming from, but you can't say that you leave out all those features intentionally as a business strategy, when you just said that you can't see where the $200 price difference comes from.

 

[jstewartgt]

I understand where you are coming from, but you can't say that you leave out all those features intentionally as a business strategy, when you just said that you can't see where the $200 price difference comes from.

I think his point is those options don't cost an additional $200+ and it is nice to give the consumer an option. I personally think it's a good business decision to offer options for those that want them.

 

[BrewThruYou]

I have yet to do the heat transfer calculations but until then my stance is that they will actually heat more slowly then the single layered kettles. The only reason I carry them is because the market asks for them. Personally I would never buy one.

I would never buy one either unless I'm making a soup or stew. For wort, tri-clad doesn't make sense.

 

[ACE1967]

Wow - this is a lot of information to digest. Thanks for all the information so far, and I'll keep listening.

ACE

 

[bad67z]

Wow - this is a lot of information to digest. Thanks for all the information so far, and I'll keep listening.

ACE

Wow all that info and no questions?

 

[rvklein]

I went with Stout Tanks & Kettles. Tri Clover Sanitary Fittings were important to me.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

I understand where you are coming from, but you can't say that you leave out all those features intentionally as a business strategy, when you just said that you can't see where the $200 price difference comes from.

I offer a good quality ball valve and thermo at very reasonable prices. Now if you would like the 3-piece valve or glass themo lens or a sight glass you can add them to the kettle, that's why I don't package my valves etc with the kettles. I've seen 3-piece valves for $25-35, glass thermos for $40 so again I don't see the extra $200.

I've been doing this for a long time and feel I have a good grasp of the market. 90% of users want a good quality product for the lowest price. There are a few that want top end valves, sight glasses, etc but being a small business I can't afford to keep 3 different types of valves, thermos, etc in inventory.

I think his point is those options don't cost an additional $200+ and it is nice to give the consumer an option. I personally think it's a good business decision to offer options for those that want them.

Correct

I went with Stout Tanks & Kettles. Tri Clover Sanitary Fittings were important to me.

I can see where the extra cost for these kettles comes from. There's a lot of workman ship. Small niche but they fill it well!

 

[Markd27]

I think his point is those options don't cost an additional $200+ and it is nice to give the consumer an option. I personally think it's a good business decision to offer options for those that want them.

Well that is very debatable. The Boilermaker has stepped bottom, perfect for a false bottom, are there other kettles with this design feature? The sight glass is protected borosilicate glass, and the design is unlike anything available on the market. Yes, you could get by with a stainless elbow and a piece of plastic tube, similar but not the same thing. The valve is a three piece unit, readily available but not cheap. The snap-in dip tube is a great design, and again, no one offers anything with the same quality and convenience. The adjustable thermometer is not the same as a standard $30 thermometer.

To me the above is well worth the extra ~$200, IMHO those that say they can get the same for less are comparing apples to oranges, R&D is not cheap. Can you get a valve, plastic sight glass, amd thermometer for less than $200? Sure you can, but they wont compare to what the boilermaker offers in quality or design. The real question is if this matters to you, to some no but Blichmann seems to be doing well so there's obviously a market for those looking for high end equipment?

 

[Rbeckett]

I think his point is those options don't cost an additional $200+ and it is nice to give the consumer an option. I personally think it's a good business decision to offer options for those that want them.

The issue is will a 200 dollar more expensive kettle with all of the current hot button bells and whistles make any better or worse beer. If you have you process perfected and need a state of the art item then the need would be justified. If I only had one previous batch from extract and got ahold of dads credit card and the Midwestern catalog I could see getting a Blitch with thermo couples, cam locks, temp wells, pilot lites, CO and CO2 monitor and super accurate temp regulation with in 1/2 degree F in 24 hours. It's a matter of cost, enjoyment and desire. Lots of us regular brewers are just happy to be able to do it from time to time. So my vote would have to be the least expensive pot I can find that is larger than 44 Qts and a manifold for Draining wort and transfering liquids. If I could find a high quality stainless 44 qt pot for less than a c-note (100$ Bill) It would already be a long done deal. I think a 44 would do a full boil of 5 galln batches rather nicely. Have I written any uneccessary info or info that is not needed in this thread. Once it is mashed, Vorlaufed, lautered and sparged I will end up with 6 Gallons pre-boil and 5.25 with boil losses of fluid through agitation and evaporation. . My target OG is based on 10 points from each pound of DME , Malt, Lme and sugar around 1.0520 OG and 1.0100 FG. At least thats how I understand the whole process so far. Since I am still a scary noob, I'm always ready to tinker just because I think I can.
Regards.
Non-walker, have you seen "Day Walker"?

 

[40watt]

From all of my research, the reason for a try clad bottom is due to stainless being prone to hot spots. If you want to avoid wort scorching, you wouldn't want a single layer of stainless. In that case, you'd be better off with an aluminum kettle.

That at least, is the sum total of the "expert" opinions I have gathered via articles and podcasts. Since John Palmer is a metalurgist by trade, his opinion carries a great deal of weight with me.

 

[kincade]

From all of my research, the reason for a try clad bottom is due to stainless being prone to hot spots. If you want to avoid wort scorching, you wouldn't want a single layer of stainless. In that case, you'd be better off with an aluminum kettle.

That at least, is the sum total of the "expert" opinions I have gathered via articles and podcasts. Since John Palmer is a metalurgist by trade, his opinion carries a great deal of weight with me.

I'd add that if one were direct firing a mash, a tri-clad bottom would be MUCH more important. I'd not be as concerned with one in a boil kettle but direct heat to a mash is a different story.

 

[onthekeg]

I'd add that if one were direct firing a mash, a tri-clad bottom would be MUCH more important. I'd not be as concerned with one in a boil kettle but direct heat to a mash is a different story.

And to add to this, if I put an elec element into the kettle I don't need triclad either.

 

[aubiecat]

I'll throw in my 2 cents about clad and non clad because I have both and I currently boil on the kitchen range.
I have a 32 qt. Winware tri-clad stainless pot and a 44 qt. Bayou Classic stainless pot.
I got the Winware pot 1st because I thought the aluminum sandwich would give an advantage. Not so. I can barely bring 7 gallons of liquid to boil in that pot, even sitting on 2 eyes.

Now I have a the 44 qt. BC pot, which came with a steam basket, and it brings a rolling boil to 8-9 gallons real easy. This pot is the cat's whiskers.
The BC pot is also my future E-BIAB kettle so tri-clad is useless for that.

 

[40watt]

I'll throw in my 2 cents about clad and non clad because I have both and I currently boil on the kitchen range.
I have a 32 qt. Winware tri-clad stainless pot and a 44 qt. Bayou Classic stainless pot.
I got the Winware pot 1st because I thought the aluminum sandwich would give an advantage. Not so. I can barely bring 7 gallons of liquid to boil in that pot, even sitting on 2 eyes.

Now I have a the 44 qt. BC pot, which came with a steam basket, and it brings a rolling boil to 8-9 gallons real easy. This pot is the cat's whiskers.
The BC pot is also my future E-BIAB kettle so tri-clad is useless for that.

Your's would be a very different story on a propane burner.

 

[DaleP]

As for Made in the USA... Unfortunately my kettles, as well as every other kettle out there (again unfortunately) comes from China. I have talked to local shops and they laugh when you tell them what you need a kettle made for. As for Blichmann I couldn't find on their website that the kettles were made in the US, just that they try to purchase from the US as much as possible.

Not trying to start a flame war but I'm proud of my products and personally I'm not sold on the price tag of the Blichmann.

-Ben

Not wanting to argue here, but the Penrose Kettles are made in St Louis, MO, USA.

 

[SpikeBrewing]

Not wanting to argue here, but the Penrose Kettles are made in St Louis, MO, USA.

And I give those guys major props! Until I read otherwise I see nothing about Blichmann being made in the US

 

[H-ost]

Well that is very debatable. The Boilermaker has stepped bottom, perfect for a false bottom, are there other kettles with this design feature? The sight glass is protected borosilicate glass, and the design is unlike anything available on the market. Yes, you could get by with a stainless elbow and a piece of plastic tube, similar but not the same thing. The valve is a three piece unit, readily available but not cheap. The snap-in dip tube is a great design, and again, no one offers anything with the same quality and convenience. The adjustable thermometer is not the same as a standard $30 thermometer.

To me the above is well worth the extra ~$200, IMHO those that say they can get the same for less are comparing apples to oranges, R&D is not cheap. Can you get a valve, plastic sight glass, amd thermometer for less than $200? Sure you can, but they wont compare to what the boilermaker offers in quality or design. The real question is if this matters to you, to some no but Blichmann seems to be doing well so there's obviously a market for those looking for high end equipment?

Apples to Oranges is how I see it.

We all know brewing isn't a poor mans game but now with all the DIY involved people with less disposable income (like me) can get DEEP into this hobby. Blichman has name in the market because they have been around for a while and lot of people in this hobby want the best because they can afford the best. That said, I believe companies like Spike Brewing have their own niche to fill with selling "base" equipment and I bet they will fill it nicely.

Kettles are way out of my price range even without shipping costs but I know I would go for a company like Spike over Blichman seeing as a could spend more than I make in a month on 2-3 items from them...

 

[kal]

I think his point is those options don't cost an additional $200+ and it is nice to give the consumer an option. I personally think it's a good business decision to offer options for those that want them.

But you don't have the option to add an aftermarket sight glass that is as nicely protected as the one Blichmann gives you. At least I haven't seen any (edit: Stout tanks have tri-clover fitted sight glasses that seem well protected). All of the ones I've seen are not protected at all on the sides. You also have to add your own gradients with a marker or stickers or similar since all kettles are different. They rarely stay stuck on or permanent from what I've seen.

Clad bottom is useless for brewing and just adds extra weight to the kettle with zero advantage. We're not making spaghetti sauce here. The wort is in constant motion so it will not burn. you can't scorch wort by heating from the bottom with gas. It's not possible. Direct firing mash may be an issue. I don't know. I've never done that nor would I design a system around direct firing mash (seems too easy to scorch regardless of how thick the bottom is). RIMS/HERMS is (IMHO) a better idea.

My opinion on welded vs weldless: Nothing wrong with the way Blichmann does weldless. It's just as tight fitting as welded. They do weldless like this using their thermometer as an example:

All their fittings use this principle. The ball valve, thermo, and top/bottom of the sight glass. Same idea.

I use the same principles in my design when I added extra valves to my kettles. The end result is something that's as tight fitting, does not move, does not leak. Just like welded.

Lots of the hate people have for weldless is because of crappy implementation where the person is told to not tighten to much as the oring(s) will get compressed and cause a leaking. Any implementation done like that is questionable. This is not how Blichmann does it. (so it's not how I did it either).

Kal

 

[kal]

And I give those guys major props! Until I read otherwise I see nothing about Blichmann being made in the US

John Blichmann emailed me years ago (Dec 3, 2008) when I bought mine as I wanted to know for import/tax reasons. Things may have changed since then but back then he told me (and I quote) "The pots are about 60-70% US content."

Kal