Blew my water calcs, thin beer

[WorkBoots09]

In short, I didn't understand my water calculations and boil-off rates for my first batch in my new keggle, and I ended up with a very thin tasting oatmeal stout. My gravity is nowhere near where it should be, low alcohol content, and the beer overall just tastes watered down. It's not undrinkable, but I'm a little embarrassed to serve it to my friends.

Is there any way to pump some flavor and life back into this beer now that it's kegged? Could I drop some cocoa nibs or something into the keg? Should I serve it as a beer cocktail with a heavier commercial oatmeal stout?

Or should I just take my lumps, try and go through the 4 gallons in the keg quickly to free it up for a new better batch where I closely monitor my measurements and hopefully don't screw it up again?

 

[RM-MN]

Just how low was the OG on this batch? How long has it been maturing? I find that dark beers will taste thin for some time until they mature. You might want to wait a while on this beer.

 

[jCOSbrew]

Next time keep boiling (or add DME) until you hit your target OG. You could also add a little sugar (<10%) but it sounds like you are already done fermenting.

 

[WorkBoots09]

@RM-MN
OG was supposed to be in the 1.060 neighborhood, and I barely got up to 1.045. FG should have been at 1.015, and I measured 1.025. Not a great batch at all. This batch was in the primary for 4 weeks. I don't think I underpitched, I'm pretty sure it was just too much water in the boil.

@jCOSbrew
Fermentation is complete and it's already conditioned in the kegerator. I think I'm screwed on fixing the batch this time, but this weekend I'm going to go through all my equipment with wet run tests to check my boil off rates, volumes, boil times, etc. My biggest problem I think is that I'm not keeping good enough notes, and I don't know my equipment well enough. Once I can quantify those different values, I can work on my consistency.

 

[C-Rider]

I've found that the HOT volume and Cold volume are different after the boil. Check that out also.

 

[hotspurdotus]

Here's something you can try to fix your beer https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/add-maltodextrin-keg-188841/

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[brokebucket]

Here's something you can try to fix your beer https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/add-maltodextrin-keg-188841/

Sent from my EVO using Home Brew mobile app

This is a wicked cool idea, but I wonder if it will help you, since your FG is 1.025..this is really poor attenuation. What was your mash temp...and how sure of your temp measurement are you?

 

[billl]

Something doesn't add up here. A 1.025 finishing stout can't reasonably be described as thin.

 

[WorkBoots09]

Mouthfeel, no not thin or light. The taste however is as if someone poured water into my beer when I wasn't looking.

 

[RM-MN]

Mouthfeel, no not thin or light. The taste however is as if someone poured water into my beer when I wasn't looking.

That sounds exactly like the last Guiness I had. :cross:

 

[billl]

" The taste however is as if someone poured water into my beer when I wasn't looking."

Well, you brewed a 2.6% ABV beer. It's going to really, really weak. If you are confident it has reached FG, then it is what it is.

" I'm pretty sure it was just too much water in the boil."

That isn't really how it works. If you intended to make 5 gallons and you made 5 gallons, then you had the right amount of water. If you post your recipe and more detailed procedures, I'm sure we'll be able to help you troubleshoot what went wrong.

 

[Psycotte]

Sounds to me with a low OG and high FG that the mash temp was likely the culprit. My little bit of experience is telling me the mash temp was likely too high producing to many unfermentables and not enough sugar. Being .015 off his OG mark is a terrible efficiency number. Could also be length of mash time but I'm still leaning towards a high mash temp.

 

[WorkBoots09]

The recipe was a scale-up and minor tweaking of Midwest's Oatmeal Stout.

10 lbs. Domestic 2-Row barley
1 lb Rolled Oats
1lb Chocolate Malt
1lb Roasted Barley
8 oz. cocoa at 10min left

I used simple biab calculator, it told me I needed about 9 gallons for a full volume mash with 1 gal boil-off. Strike temp something like 168 for a 156 mash. I didn't know my actual boil-off, so this is the first place I think my lack of experience bit me.

I mashed at 156-158 for an hour, and I checked the temperature throughout. It stayed pretty steady. I do remember it staying a little higher than I wanted, but I didn't think it would matter if it was only a couple degrees. My bad here again.

I squeezed but did not sparge. At this point I should have checked the volume, but again my inexperience with my equipment reared its ugly head. No idea what my pre-boil volume was. Pre-boil gravity once it was at room temp was 1.045. I remember being very disappointed with the efficiency.

At the end of the boil, I transferred wort to my 3 gal carboy (nearly full) and my 5 gallon carboy (also nearly full). At this point, I think I took another hydrometer reading and it was near 1.055, but I attributed that to the cocoa I added. 4th instance of inexperienced ignorance.

After nearly a month in the primaries, I split the batch into about 2.5 gallons bottled with cold brewed coffee and 4.5 gallons kegged as-is.

What I take away from this is I need to get my sh*t together, know my equipment better, and take better notes.

 

[Foosier]

Before you spend a ton of time dry running your system, be sure to take a look at some calculators to give you an idea of what you should be seeing.

Boil off can be predicted to a certain extent. Check this link out.
http://sigginet.info/brewing/tools/boil-off-calculator/

This calculator is excellent for helping to determine how much water you need.
http://www.simplebiabcalculator.com/

Obviously there are tons of calculators for efficiency and gravity. I like this one for my BIAB batches.
http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/gravity.html

I honestly run the last two of those calculations ahead of each brew day to be sure I have my volumes, mash temps and gravities predicted. This helps to ensure you are not missing something. I also agreee though that with the FG that high your mash temp was likely off. You might want to check your thermometer for accuracy. Also, when doing BIAB note that calculators built for standard mash tun brewing won't really work for you and will overshoot your mash water temp leaving you with a mash temp that is way too high.

 

[jCOSbrew]

You need a high tech, calibrated spoon or mash paddle for your next batch. Fill up your kettle 1 gallon at a time and make some marks on you mash paddle so you can measure pre and post boil volumes.

IMO doing full volume BIAB is not critical. You can always mash w/ less water and top off to the correct pre-boil volume. After a couple batches you will be able to determine how much water is lost due to grain absorption, boil off rate, etc. and dial in your volumes.

 

[billl]

"At the end of the boil, I transferred wort to my 3 gal carboy (nearly full) and my 5 gallon carboy (also nearly full)."

Yikes. Definitely need to go back to the drawing board here, but it should be a pretty simple change.

Grain absorbs about .125 gallons/lb. On a 13.5lbs grain bill, that means you'll have about 1.7 gallons of wort left in the grain once you drain in. A generic boiloff rate would be a gallon/hr. If you started with 9 gallons, that would mean should end up with 6.3 gallons of cooled wort. If you were closer to 8, then you've got some measurement wrong along the way.

As for efficiency, it looks like you actually did fine. 7.5 gallons of 45point wort is the same efficiency as 5.5 gallons of 61 point wort.

So, I suspect if you take a minute to double-check your water needs and make sure you carefully measure the volumes, you'll be right on next time. Just remember to take some measurements along the way and you'll be dialed in no time.

 

[WorkBoots09]

Thanks to everyone so far on the thread. This was my first boil in the keggle, so I was a little over zealous and not as prepared as I should have been. I'll calibrate and familiarize myself with my equipment, and hopefully my next batch will perform well.

 

[Psycotte]

This is Part 1 of the problem.

"At the end of the boil, I transferred wort to my 3 gal carboy (nearly full) and my 5 gallon carboy (also nearly full)."

If you were closer to 8, then you've got some measurement wrong along the way.

This is part 2.

From Palmer's How to Brew

A compromise of all factors yields the standard mash conditions for most homebrewers: a mash ratio of about 1.5 quarts of water per pound grain, pH of 5.3, temperature of 150-155°F and a time of about one hour. These conditions yield a wort with a nice maltiness and good fermentability.

Starting a mash at 156 and suspecting you may have been a bit higher could have contributed to the unfermentability.

I think in the end you had a combo problem of Too much volume and too high a mash temp.

You'll certainly be aware the next go round. Think of your current beer as your "Penance". With every bottle you crack you be thinking "Damn....Mash temps and Volume...Mash temps and Volume". Safe to say you probably won't repeat your mistake.

 

[brokebucket]

Also, make sure your thermometer is accurate. If you were shooting for 158 mash temp and ended up a little high, but your thermometer was also a few degrees high, then you denatured your converting enzymes...and this could totally be your problem.

 

[WorkBoots09]

I filled my kettle yesterday and marked my paddle handle at the half and full gallon stages up to 10. I don't do any batches larger than 6 gallons or so, but if I plan on any larger, I'll go ahead and mark it until my keggle is full. I also checked my boil off rate by boiling 5 gallons for an hour. It turns out I'm about 1.75 gallons per hour. That seems high to me, but it is what it is.

Once my calibrations were done, I started my spiced ale batch and hit all of my numbers! 89% extraction, and 69% brewhouse. Once I work out some finer points in my process, I think I can jump into the 70's. Thanks for the advice everyone!


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[jdauria]

Once you had a pre-boil gravity reading that was too low, you could have calculated gravity points you should have had vs what you did have, and then added DME to the boil to hit your pre-boil gravity.

Basically your Pre-boil gravity (last two digits, say 45 instead of 1.045) x the estimated pre-boil volume = the gravity units you are suppose to have.

Then take your actual pre-boil gravity x your actual pre-boil volume to get actual gravity points. Subtract that from the original gravity points and divide by 45. That will give you the pounds of DME to add to hit your target.

 

[kjc0011]

I had a similar problem with a brown ale. I came to the conclusion that I mashed too high and created a lot of unfermenatables. Instead of 158 I'm going to shoot for 153-5 next go around/

 

[calvey]

Sounds like a high mash like everyone else said. Also, I might throw in my new http://biabcalculator.com tool as a suggestion to help get your water right.

 

[kalmah21]

I used simple biab calculator, it told me I needed about 9 gallons for a full volume mash with 1 gal boil-off. Strike temp something like 168 for a 156 mash. I didn't know my actual boil-off, so this is the first place I think my lack of experience bit me.

I did my first BIAB yesterday and this sounds exactly like what I did. I didn't know what rate to use for boil off so I used 1 gal/hour as well. The boil off in my pot was around 1 quart for the small batch that I brewed. This left me with way too much water and the OG of my IPA was 1.030.