bleach question

[Evan_Jolly]

I bleached my mash tun. Will it give my beer a medical taste even though the wort gets boiled after coming in contact with the mash tun?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

I bleached my mash tun. Will it give my beer a medical taste even though the wort gets boiled after coming in contact with the mash tun?

Not if you have rinsed it sufficiently. Also, if you did not follow the dilution guidelines (depending on the concentration, normally 1 tbsp per gallon) for bleach, you can always leave it in the hot sun (like we have that now) after rinsing three time with hot water.

 

[Evan_Jolly]

The reason im asking is I brewed a batch of beer about a month ago after I bleached my mash tun and now that its kegged it has that medical taste. Trying to pinpoint the cause. There was no sign of infection. I always sanatize really well also.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

"Chlorophenol is perceived as a mouthwash, antiseptic, medicinal or a hospital like flavour. Imparted to beer by the external contamination of either brewing raw materials or packaging materials with chlorinated phenols. This is generally due to poor rinsing processes within the brewery during the cleaning phase. "

So that lack of sufficient rinsing or your water used could be the culprit. For me, it was water when the local treatment plant changed from old school chlorine to chloramines.

 

[HAREEBROWNBEEST]

In the biotech field we always triple rinse, then again we never used bleach...its definitely a rookie move, I've done it no doubt, i just use star san in a spray bottle for everything

 

[wardens355]

When I first starting brewing I was advised to never use bleach because you need to rinse with a copious amount of water to rid it from your carboys/tun. My advice would be to sideline the bleach from brewing activities and make sure to rinse and scrub everything clean at the end of the brewday and stick to PBW/oxyclean for cleaning, and no-rinse sanitizers. The mash tun doesn't really need to be sanitized. A good rinse and wipe down, maybe circulate some PBW solution through the fittings. Everything that comes out of it is boiled, so no need to make sure any microbes in there are deactivated.

 

[Evan_Jolly]

In the biotech field we always triple rinse, then again we never used bleach...its definitely a rookie move, I've done it no doubt, i just use star san in a spray bottle for everything

I forgot to empty my grains after a brew and they got pretty funky and stank. Thats the only reason I bleached.

 

[Evan_Jolly]

Still my main question was would the bleach still matter since its pre boil?

 

[wardens355]

I forgot to empty my grains after a brew and they got pretty funky and stank. Thats the only reason I bleached.

Yeah, grains will become very nasty if they are left in there. I would still avoid bleaching even after that. Soak then scrub with oxyclean or PBW solution will do enough to clean it out and get that stank out.

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Still my main question was would the bleach still matter since its pre boil?

If it is still there due to insufficient rinsing, yes. Very, Very much so. Could you still smell the bleach before adding the strike water? If so, this could be your problem.

 

[wardens355]

If it is still there due to insufficient rinsing, yes. Very, Very much so. Could you still smell the bleach before adding the strike water? If so, this could be your problem.

While chlorine can be driven off with a boil, off-flavor compounds formed due to the presence of bleach are no longer volatile, and will not be driven off by a boil. My strategy is to never use bleach. Off-flavors and pitting of stainless steel are not worth the risk when there are alternatives.

 

[Evan_Jolly]

I rinsed multiple times. No bleach smell. Ive had a few batches over the years turn out with that medical flavor but never any signs of infection. It seems random. That is the first time I have ever used bleach for anything. Any possibility it could have to do with old yeast or pitching at to high of temperature? I wash all my own yeast and use the jars with no starter.

 

[wardens355]

I rinsed multiple times. No bleach smell. Ive had a few batches over the years turn out with that medical flavor but never any signs of infection. It seems random. That is the first time I have ever used bleach for anything. Any possibility it could have to do with old yeast or pitching at to high of temperature? I wash all my own yeast and use the jars with no starter.

Could be high fermentation temperature if it is medicinal/solventy. What yeast did you use and what temperature did you pitch and ferment at? How long did you leave the beer in primary before packaging?

 

[Onkel_Udo]

Ive had a few batches over the years turn out with that medical flavor but never any signs of infection. It seems random. That is the first time I have ever used bleach for anything.

Then you likely need to g through your entire process from water selection to temperature control to ingredient selection. This was presented as a new problem and we did answer you specific question. If this is a recurring issue and this is the first time you bleached, it is unlikely to be the culprit.

 

[HAREEBROWNBEEST]

I made a root beer in one of my carboys before, now that smell WONT go away. Had to ditch that carboy.

 

[Evan_Jolly]

Could be high fermentation temperature if it is medicinal/solventy. What yeast did you use and what temperature did you pitch and ferment at? How long did you leave the beer in primary before packaging?

I usually pitch around 80 and keep my closet between 65 and 70 while fermenting. Usually keg after about 3 weeks. Usually use 1056 american ale.

 

[Evan_Jolly]

Also I've been brewing 2-3 batches a month for 3 years and have only had 4 batches turn out like this. Thats why its hard for me to pin point. I always do everything the same.

 

[Evan_Jolly]

Is it possible I could be letting in some wild yeast when I dry hop?

 

[wardens355]

I usually pitch around 80 and keep my closet between 65 and 70 while fermenting. Usually keg after about 3 weeks. Usually use 1056 american ale.

Well, that is high for pitching. It's best to pitch lower and let it rise. I would say mid-60s is a good place to be for 1056. And a closet at 65-70 will lead to the fermenting wort being in the mid to high 70s. You could also have picked up contamination if you've been reusing washed yeast for a long time. What type of beer is it? Darker beers can mask off flavors, but if its a pale ale, or something else light, the problem would be more noticeable.

 

[Evan_Jolly]

Well, that is high for pitching. It's best to pitch lower and let it rise. I would say mid-60s is a good place to be for 1056. And a closet at 65-70 will lead to the fermenting wort being in the mid to high 70s. You could also have picked up contamination if you've been reusing washed yeast for a long time. What type of beer is it? Darker beers can mask off flavors, but if its a pale ale, or something else light, the problem would be more noticeable.

Its an ipa. 5.6% I probably need to dump all my jars of yeast and start with a new smack pack. I have a bad habbit of using all jars and ending up washing yeast from high alcohol beer and I know thats a no no.

 

[wardens355]

Its an ipa. 5.6% I probably need to dump all my jars of yeast and start with a new smack pack. I have a bad habbit of using all jars and ending up washing yeast from high alcohol beer and I know thats a no no.

Do you ever make starters? I suggest following procedure similar to mine. I grow starters that are larger by 100-150 billion cells and split the starter into a culture (for saving) and a pitching jar. The mason jars are boiled for 15 minutes and then cooled upside down before harvesting the yeast. After boiling the jars and taking the pot off of heat, I toss the lids in to sanitize them as well. No washing of yeast needed.

I made several beers with Pacific Ale WLP041 that I think got contaminated somehow. I made an English bitter, American pale, and Oatmeal Stout. The bitter and pale were too solventy to drink and I dumped them, but the roasted flavors of the stout overpowered them, so I could still drink it. If you were making malty, roasty beers, you may not have noticed the off flavor.

 

[Evan_Jolly]

Ive always just tossed my jars into the bucket of starsan for a few min. Never boil them. You think boiling is better?

 

[wardens355]

Ive always just tossed my jars into the bucket of starsan for a few min. Never boil them. You think boiling is better?

Boiling ensures everything's dead, but maybe not necessary. Main point was that growing a large starter and pulling extra cells off for later is less prone to introducing other bugs than harvesting yeast off the bottom of a fermenter. Or at the very least, more controllable.

 

[Yooper]

I've had two 'band-aid' beers over the yeast, both attributed to contamination. One was from stored yeast, the other was from a very long lag time and bacterial contamination ruined the beer.

The most common cause of a chlorophenol smell and taste is from chlorine in the brewing water (and yes, even pre-boil, as it's the combination of malt + chlorine that makes it, even in the mashtun) but it does happen from bacterial contamination as well.

 

[Evan_Jolly]

Boiling ensures everything's dead, but maybe not necessary. Main point was that growing a large starter and pulling extra cells off for later is less prone to introducing other bugs than harvesting yeast off the bottom of a fermenter. Or at the very least, more controllable.

That definitely is a good point. I just never make starters because I never have extract. Do you ever make starters from 2 row?

 

[wardens355]

That definitely is a good point. I just never make starters because I never have extract. Do you ever make starters from 2 row?

I use extract for my starters because it is easier to just toss it in and boil it for 15 minutes. You could do a mini-mash to produce starter wort with 2-row, but it would obviously take more time to prepare. I always order 2-3 three lb bags of dry malt extract when I put in an order for bulk grains so I can always have some extract on hand for making starter wort.

 

[Evan_Jolly]

I use extract for my starters because it is easier to just toss it in and boil it for 15 minutes. You could do a mini-mash to produce starter wort with 2-row, but it would obviously take more time to prepare. I always order 2-3 three lb bags of dry malt extract when I put in an order for bulk grains so I can always have some extract on hand for making starter wort.

How much dme do you use for a starter? Or should I say how many starters do u get out of a pound?

 

[Evan_Jolly]

I've had two 'band-aid' beers over the yeast, both attributed to contamination. One was from stored yeast, the other was from a very long lag time and bacterial contamination ruined the beer.

The most common cause of a chlorophenol smell and taste is from chlorine in the brewing water (and yes, even pre-boil, as it's the combination of malt + chlorine that makes it, even in the mashtun) but it does happen from bacterial contamination as well.

Didnt even tnink about lag time. My beer almost always take 36 hours or so to kick off because of my washed yeast with no starter (assumed) and always turns out fine. Maybe making starters would be my fix.

 

[wardens355]

How much dme do you use for a starter? Or should I say how many starters do u get out of a pound?

Depends on the recipe, but I usually grow two yeast strains at once and brew two 6 gallon batches at one time the following weekend. I use about 1-1.25 pounds of DME for average gravity ales, so around 2 starters per pound. That produces two jars of yeast ready for pitching, 2 jars of yeast for storage.

Didnt even tnink about lag time. My beer almost always take 36 hours or so to kick off because of my washed yeast with no starter (assumed) and always turns out fine. Maybe making starters would be my fix.

My beers usually start fermenting vigorously within 12 hours. Maybe having recently grown, active yeast will help.

 

[jimeve]

Is bleach safe to use as a sanitizer? I live in a developing country country and finding starsan impossible.
Also finding Camden tablets and yeast nutrient is impossible.

 

[Gruel]

Oxygen bleach yes, chlorine bleach no.