I'm very new to home brewing. Just bought my first starter kit recently and plan to brew my first batch or two with in the next month. I drink a wide variety of different beers and I recently discovered the black and tan taste. I recently bought the Bass Black and Tan pub kit. Half Bass English style stout and half Bass Pal Ale. After that I fell in love with the taste. As for my question for brewing. Can I brew Stout ingredients and Pale Ale ingredients together or do I have to brew separate batches and mix them together then bottle it?
Black and Tan question
- Thread starter Super24
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
To make a true Black and Tan, you have to make a stout and a pale ale (ordinary bitter)
Then pour them properly into a glass to get the layering. It is much easier when they are kegged.
Then pour them properly into a glass to get the layering. It is much easier when they are kegged.
But yes. You could merge together the two recipes and probably end up with something that tastes about right.
DrunkleJon said:
And this. I did not think of it that way. That is what I get for trying to think too early in the morning.
chawagi
Well-Known Member
I'm glad this thread was brought up. I love me some Black and Tan, and now that I have two carboys I was considering taking a stab at a B&T myself. The path I was looking to take though was going to be brew and ferment the two styles separately, then mix them in the bottling bucket for the priming & bottling. Plus I figure I can actually get stocked with three styles off this one brew; 2 cases of B&T and 1 case each of Stout and APA.
Anyone have any success with this method?
Anyone have any success with this method?
chawagi
Well-Known Member
Also, to answer the OP's question, I think the hop additions during the boil is where this procedure would bite you in the a$$. To maintain the character of the styles that make the black and tan a unique beer, I think you would have to brew the recipes separate in order to segregate the hop profiles.
I have to agree with this. Brewing the two together will most certainly NOT give you the same flavor profile as brewing them separately, then mixing on serving. A Black and Tan isn't a distinct beer style, it's a beer cocktail. (I love them, btw.)
Well, if you scaled things properly and combined while keeping the hop addition times you should be about right. So for a 5 gal batch, half each recipe approximately, combine the grains/extracts, boil, add the scaled hops at the same times, cool, etc. The problems I see would be with the fermentation because you would have to decide which yeast to use, and which temperature to ferment in due to that yeast.
Otherwise the brew a batch of each and mix appropriately would be more true to Black & Tan, and would end up like the commercial premixed options leaving out the layered visual representation.
This.
And u also need to take into account the different gravities/ABV's of each brew. Traditionally its an English style stout which would lean towards a sweeter as opposed to dry.
To get anything ideally close to the flavor the OP is talking about, u should brew two different and then mix them.
chawagi
Well-Known Member
I don't know, Man. I'm too fresh to say with certainty, but I really think this way would produce a very off tasting Stout.
Could be a great experiment though; might even come up something unique and delicious. I'm sure worse tasting things have been produced for far less noble endeavors
.LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
Are you
?You cannot mix ingredients from a light beer and a dark beer, brew it, and expect it to taste anything even remotely like a light and dark beer blended out of kegs.
I shouldn't be. I am at work after all. Maybe I am thinking to granularly. In my experience with recipe modification (I am not yet at my own creations yet so take or discard my thoughts as you will) the base malt flavor is a sum of its parts and process. Sure mash temps can and will cause differences, though I would think if you were using extracts that point would be less of a factor. Hop additions would need to be scaled for gravity, true, but once again, IBU's should end up about where they would be with a finished process blend, and flavoring and aroma additions, at least with my logic, shouldnt be thrown too far outta whack. I mean most stouts are very lightly to not at all aroma/flavor hoppedand all you get in those respects would be from the bitter recipe. And like I said the fermentation temps would need some thinking.
This makes me wonder where you read there being such a difference in final product? True, some of the nuances of a properly layered/separately fermented and blended would be different, but wouldn't the roasty malts from the stout still contribute the same amount of roasty flavors and color as well as each other ingredient still contribute its part? I still see the fermentation part to be where concessions would need to be made.
In my opinion, same ingredients, same process, same times and temps should still contribute the same flavors.
Please do correct me if I am wrong though. I may be interested in trying this with some small batches though. I am kind of intrigued on how it would change things.
Wow I say though a lot.
This makes me wonder where you read there being such a difference in final product? True, some of the nuances of a properly layered/separately fermented and blended would be different, but wouldn't the roasty malts from the stout still contribute the same amount of roasty flavors and color as well as each other ingredient still contribute its part? I still see the fermentation part to be where concessions would need to be made.
In my opinion, same ingredients, same process, same times and temps should still contribute the same flavors.
Please do correct me if I am wrong though. I may be interested in trying this with some small batches though. I am kind of intrigued on how it would change things.
Wow I say though a lot.
LovesIPA
Well-Known Member
I have a stout recipe that calls for 1.5 oz of Columbus for bittering, 1 oz of cascade at 15 min, and 1 oz of cascade at 1 min. The only thing that makes it a stout is the roasted/black malts in the grist.
Take out the roasted and black malts and I have a pale ale recipe.
Do you think if I halved the dark malts in the stout recipe it would taste the same as these two packaged beers blended together?
But try it. Let us know how it comes out. I'd be curious to see how different they are. My guess is very, VERY different.
Take out the roasted and black malts and I have a pale ale recipe.
Do you think if I halved the dark malts in the stout recipe it would taste the same as these two packaged beers blended together?
But try it. Let us know how it comes out. I'd be curious to see how different they are. My guess is very, VERY different.
Resided in North-East PA for 20-some years, and before discovering craft beer, I used to live on Yuengling and really like their B&T, which is even better on tap. Very tasty for a commercial beer, alas a little thin. To create B&T they mix their Porter and "Premium Beer."
The most remarkable thing is, if I haven't had B&T in a while, the first few glasses are truly a god's drink.
I still get some Yuengling when in a pinch, and prefer it over most other "thin" beers.
It is pretty much the only Yuengling I will drink. Nothing against Yuengling or anything, but I have had too many off flavored lagers of theirs over the past few years and have just given up on them.
I will probably get flamed for this though. And I am sure it is much better when consumed without it being shipped a state south.
I will probably get flamed for this though. And I am sure it is much better when consumed without it being shipped a state south.
Yeah, it's weird how insensitive one can be to off flavors until you start brewing and learn to recognize flaws. Until then, I've always chalked it up to my taste buds being off, but have had similar experiences with Yuengling's lager products. Many were from taps though, and now you mention it, the more so further south, indeed.
I guess I was spoiled at the time living a mere 30 miles north of their brewery. I never took a tour though... always traveling through Pottsville.
johnnytaco
Well-Known Member
Yuengling also has a brewery in Florida, just outside Tampa. If you have had bad experiences with their beer out of a tap, it's probably an issue with the beer lines, not the beer. I was a line tech for Bud (I know) for a while ten years ago. The worst tasting beers came from a restaurant in Idaho Springs that had the most disgusting lines you've ever seen. Their whole system had to be replaced because it had black mold growing through all of it. No matter how clean our lines were, the mold would be back in full force within the month because it was a system wide problem. To this day, I won't drink there.
It is strange though that my 'distaste' for Yuengling Lager started growing a couple years before I even started getting seriously into craft brews, let along homebrewing. Yuengling on tap seems to be the main culpret, though I have had some less fresh in bottles. I can not get myself to order one on draft especially or in bottle unless someone is giving me one for free. I just do not want to take the gamble where I can settle for a BL, or equivalent with better odds of it tasting passable.
I will bet it is usually the lines.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
Wanted Wanted to buy - Used cask (pin)- Latest: IslandLizard
-
-
-
-
-
-