Bittering hops question for British-style ales

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Ollie8000

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I have a few recipes that I like that use 1oz of Fuggle or EKG at 60mins as the bittering hop. How much difference would it make to use 0.25oz of Hallertau Magnum (or whatever the appropriate weight is to get the same alpha acid)?

The advantages aren't huge---I'd save a couple of dollars per 5 gallon batch and have a little less hop gunk in already low-gunk brews---but if there are no downsides, then why not? But maybe the Fuggle/EKG is doing things I don't realise?
 
So in some ways you will have to try it to know if it will make much difference. I keep a high alpha acid hop, warrior, around to use for most of my first additions. Usually these additions make little flavor contribution to the final beer and switching one out for another is unlikely to result in much difference. I'm unwilling to say it won't make any difference but it is unlikely to be a substantial difference. The difference will be less noticeable in beers with alot going on flavorwise like a stout and any late addition hops will mask any differences. However if you have a light style with virtually no late hops, think an English Mild or a Scottish shilling ale, then you may notice a difference, it may not me much even then and you may like it better, but you just might notice a difference in those cases. Like I said you will have to try it to find out.
 
You could use Cluster for bittering. English recipes as far back as the 1800's listed "American", "Californian/Pacific" hops in their bittering addition. According to Ron Pattinson and Martyn Cornell the English imported a lot of hops from America but since they didn't like the flavor, they used them only for bittering.
 
There are some very good medium-high alpha British hops that work very well. Consider Target, Challenger, and Progress (there are probably others) which are in the 7-10% AA range and also pair extremely well with the flavor of hops like EKG and Fuggles when used to bitter. My favorite is Challenger which has nice enough flavor to use by itself. Conniston's Bluebird Bitter uses Challenger as its sole hop.
 
Thanks everyone, I'm happy that my hope/expectation was correct.

I said magnum because I had that on hand. Brewing now with 0.25oz of that instead of an ounce of Fuggle. There is 1.5oz of EKG/Fuggle to come later in the boil (and all of the recipes I'm thinking of subbing into have at least some later hops, though one only has 0.5oz).

I think I'll also do this deliberately in future as well, and check out some of the higher-alpha hops mentioned.
 
One thing not mentioned... if substituting a fraction of a high aa hop for a lower aa hop, yes you can match the bittering pretty close, but you may lose out on flavor contributions due to lower actual volume of actual hop material. Not flavors from the necessarily the oils/acids but from the actual plant matter.

Just a consideration to think about.
 
I haven't bittered a beer with anything but Magnum in a few years. I brew a wide variety of styles, too, (German lagers, Belgian, American and English ales mostly.) It might not seem like a huge cost savings but... ya know... count your pennies and your dollars will count themselves. Magnum to me is ultra-clean bitterness, 11-15% AA which means lower hop mass and it's a great price. End rant and Cheers!
 
maybe the Fuggle/EKG is doing things I don't realise?
Magnum to me is ultra-clean bitterness

It's one of the old debates, the extent to which bittering hops contribute flavour. Part of it comes down to personal preference, about 50% of people seem to actively prefer the coarser raspy bittering of something like Target. Personally I don't think something as clean as Magnum is quite right in bitter, it's OK but it just lacks that X factor that takes a beer from OK to amazing. Plenty of small British breweries use it though, and cheap is always appropriate in ordinary bitter....

Scott Janish gives a good summary of why choice of bittering variety matters - you get sequiterpenes coming out of the hops and also being formed from other compounds during the boil, which contribute spicy/woody notes. Personally I'm not the biggest fan of Fuggles, but you can always tell the beers that use it for bittering. #teamgoldings

You could use Cluster for bittering. English recipes as far back as the 1800's listed "American", "Californian/Pacific" hops in their bittering addition. According to Ron Pattinson and Martyn Cornell the English imported a lot of hops from America but since they didn't like the flavor, they used them only for bittering.

Even so, they weren't the first choice in general, it was more a question of brewers getting their hands on any hops they could at the height of the period when Britain brewed beer for the world and domestic hop gardens/yards couldn't keep up with the demand for 150 IBU export beers. It was a fairly short period between demand exploding like that and the invention of pasteurisation and refrigeration dramatically killed the amount of hops needed per barrel, and refrigeration and economic development allowed the colonies to start brewing locally. That import trade had largely died off by WWI, by which time bitter had barely been invented as a named style.

And just because a technique or ingredient was used, it doesn't mean it was considered best practice. Imagine a beer historian in 150 years looking back at this time, they would conclude that since most beer was industrial lager, brewed high-gravity with hop extracts with minimal lagering, that is the "correct" way to brew lager. A British brewer of that time would always regard Goldings as the gold standard for premium beer, even if commercial necessity forced him to use other varieties at times.
 
It's one of the old debates, the extent to which bittering hops contribute flavour. Part of it comes down to personal preference, about 50% of people seem to actively prefer the coarser raspy bittering of something like Target. Personally I don't think something as clean as Magnum is quite right in bitter, it's OK but it just lacks that X factor that takes a beer from OK to amazing. Plenty of small British breweries use it though, and cheap is always appropriate in ordinary bitter....

Scott Janish gives a good summary of why choice of bittering variety matters - you get sequiterpenes coming out of the hops and also being formed from other compounds during the boil, which contribute spicy/woody notes. Personally I'm not the biggest fan of Fuggles, but you can always tell the beers that use it for bittering. #teamgoldings



Even so, they weren't the first choice in general, it was more a question of brewers getting their hands on any hops they could at the height of the period when Britain brewed beer for the world and domestic hop gardens/yards couldn't keep up with the demand for 150 IBU export beers. It was a fairly short period between demand exploding like that and the invention of pasteurisation and refrigeration dramatically killed the amount of hops needed per barrel, and refrigeration and economic development allowed the colonies to start brewing locally. That import trade had largely died off by WWI, by which time bitter had barely been invented as a named style.

And just because a technique or ingredient was used, it doesn't mean it was considered best practice. Imagine a beer historian in 150 years looking back at this time, they would conclude that since most beer was industrial lager, brewed high-gravity with hop extracts with minimal lagering, that is the "correct" way to brew lager. A British brewer of that time would always regard Goldings as the gold standard for premium beer, even if commercial necessity forced him to use other varieties at times.

I was merely offering precedent. Never said it was the "correct" way. I said he "could" use it.
 

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