"Big" Starter Question

[MrEggSandwich]

I plan on making a Pliny clone on Saturday, and always do a starter and typically do 1qt water + .5 cup DME. My plan is to do a big starter this evening with 2 Vials WLP001.

I plan to essentially double the White Labs guidance, so: 4 pints water + 1 cup DME + 2 vials of WLP001. Have it ferment out, throw it in the fridge sometime on Friday, decant most of the water off, then pitch the rest on Saturday.

Any issues with this???

I guess I am confused when I see "I pitched a 2L starter"....What exactly does that refer to? The amount of wort I use for starter? Where does the amount of vials come into play?

Mr Malty says:

For a 1.072 wort, I need 297 billion cells= 2 vials/2 L starter.


Thanks.

 

[TheSmithsEra]

A starter is usually a quantity like 1L or 2L of wort with an OG between 1.036-1.040. Using two vials just means you're starting off with more initial yeast which you would do depending on factors such as, how much time you have to cultivate the starter, if you use a stir plate or even how much room you have in your starter container.

I always use this http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

 

[zacster]

For my 1.070 IPA I used 1 smackpack of Wy 1056 in a 2L starter made with 7oz by weight of DME. It took off as a starter, and also once I pitched the entire 2L into my brew.

What that means is that I poured the entire 2L flask of starter into my 5 gallons of wort.

You don't say whether you have a stir plate. I made myself one a while back and it makes a big difference in the starter. There's a thread in the equipment forum about using a computer fan and rare earth magnets that I followed.

 

[flars]

When someone says they pitched a two liter starter they may mean they made a two liter starter and pitched the entire two liters into the wort. They may have also mis-spoke and meant they made a two liter starter, chilled, decanted the starter wort, and then pitched the yeast.

Your plan is sound if your calculations took into account the production date/viability of the yeast to calculate the 2 liter size starter wort.

Just as an aside. I prefer the ease of use of YeastCalc. YeastCalc works especially well for making stepped starters with one vial of yeast.

 

[MrEggSandwich]

Thanks for the feedback. No stirplate, just shaking it when I have a chance.

So...bottom line: I am good to go as planned? The goal is just to introduce plenty of healthy, hungry yeast into my wort.

 

[flars]

Thanks for the feedback. No stirplate, just shaking it when I have a chance.

So...bottom line: I am good to go as planned? The goal is just to introduce plenty of healthy, hungry yeast into my wort.

What was the production date on the yeast. I'll run it through Yeastcalc and get back to you.

 

[dcHokie]

I plan on making a Pliny clone on Saturday, and always do a starter and typically do 1qt water + .5 cup DME. My plan is to do a big starter this evening with 2 Vials WLP001.

I plan to essentially double the White Labs guidance, so: 4 pints water + 1 cup DME + 2 vials of WLP001. Have it ferment out, throw it in the fridge sometime on Friday, decant most of the water off, then pitch the rest on Saturday.

Generally you want a ratio of 1/2 qt water to 1/2 cup DME for starters @ 1.040

 

[Jayhem]

I plan on making a Pliny clone on Saturday, and always do a starter and typically do 1qt water + .5 cup DME. My plan is to do a big starter this evening with 2 Vials WLP001.

I plan to essentially double the White Labs guidance, so: 4 pints water + 1 cup DME + 2 vials of WLP001. Have it ferment out, throw it in the fridge sometime on Friday, decant most of the water off, then pitch the rest on Saturday.

Any issues with this???

I guess I am confused when I see "I pitched a 2L starter"....What exactly does that refer to? The amount of wort I use for starter? Where does the amount of vials come into play?

Mr Malty says:

For a 1.072 wort, I need 297 billion cells= 2 vials/2 L starter.


Thanks.

Assuming your yeast is less than 2 months from production date and you used two vials and this is for a 5 gal batch, then a 2-L starter with intermittent shaking should produce about 300 billion cells from your 2 vials which is more than enough. If your yeast is super fresh it might even be over-pitching. I used YeastCalc.com. Most people cool and then decant their finished starter and pitch just the yeast and a little of the liquid. Pitching 2L of nasty starter wort into your beer wort will not benefit you in any way.

 

[Jayhem]

Generally you want a ratio of 1/2 qt water to 1/2 cup DME for starters @ 1.040

Wouldn't it be easier to just say 1 pint to 1/2 cup?

 

[kh54s10]

The easiest way to calculate the DME to water is to use grams. Use a 1 to 10 ratio. 1 liter takes 100 grams, 1.5 liters takes 150 grams, 2 liters takes 200 grams etc. This will give approximately 1.038 for the starter wort.

Get a digital scale and weigh your DME it is a lot more accurate than using volume measurements that can vary depending on the density of the DME in the cup.

mrmalty.com and yeastcalc.com are two excellent sites for information and calculators.

 

[dcHokie]

Wouldn't it be easier to just say 1 pint to 1/2 cup?

Yeah. Or 0.125 gallons to 1/2 cup. :cross:

Really though, just a note to the OP to double up the DME in his starter calc

 

[Jayhem]

Yeah. Or 0.125 gallons to 1/2 cup. :cross:

Really though, just a note to the OP to double up the DME in his starter calc

I was just giving you a hard time. :cross:

It is easy to remember ONE HALF quart and ONE HALF cup. I actually didn't know what volume of DME was necessary since I always weigh my DME out, 3.8oz/quart of water.

 

[MrEggSandwich]

Wouldn't it be easier to just say 1 pint to 1/2 cup?

yes...lol. Confused myself there.

 

[MrEggSandwich]

What was the production date on the yeast. I'll run it through Yeastcalc and get back to you.

I appreciate it, but don't have the yeast yet.

 

[MrEggSandwich]

So...Mr. Malty is saying this: (based on 6 gallons in fermenter..OG- 1.072, with intermittent shaking)

# of cells need (in billions): 297
# vials or packs needed without starter: 3.1
# of vials or packs need with starter: 2
# liters of starter required: 1.15

So I guess, when it comes down to it, my question is: What is the amount of water + DME for a 1.15L starter? White Labs recommendation is 2 pints water + .5 cup DME.

Becuase I am using 2 vials, do I just double my usual recipe??? Would I double White Labs' recommedation..So= 4 pints + 1 Cup DME

 

[Jayhem]

So...Mr. Malty is saying this: (based on 6 gallons in fermenter..OG- 1.072, with intermittent shaking)

# of cells need (in billions): 297
# vials or packs needed without starter: 3.1
# of vials or packs need with starter: 2
# liters of starter required: 1.15

So I guess, when it comes down to it, my question is: What is the amount of water + DME for a 1.15L starter? White Labs recommendation is 2 pints water + .5 cup DME.

Becuase I am using 2 vials, do I just double my usual recipe??? Would I double White Labs' recommedation..So= 4 pints + 1 Cup DME

I wouldn't use Mr. Malty if you are using liquid yeast. Use this instead: http://www.yeastcalc.com/index.html

If, for example your yeast production date was 10/10/2013 you could use only 1 vial of yeast and a 2-step starter. The first starter being 1 L and the second step starter of 1.6 L for a total starter size of 2.6 L. If you do it in steps you can use much less starter wort and get the same yeast count of 300 billion cells which is what you need with your recipe.

If you only do a 1-step starter and 1 vial you would need to make a 4.2 L starter.