BIAB'ish (with RIMS and a cooler).

[snowman_fs]

I'm intrigued by BIAB, (tight grind, fast conversion, easy cleanup, reduced vorlafing etc.) but have also spent plenty of $ on AG equipment. I would like to use some of my AG equipment on brew day but I don't want to make needless extra work for myself. I'm looking for input from others that have gone to BIAB'ish mashing from typical AG mashing.

I'm thinking of using my 10 gal round cooler MT with false bottom to hold the bag and drain vs lifting. I also figure I'll use my 3kW RIMS tube to let me dough in at 131 and ramp to 162 over 35 minutes. I'll then take 10 minutes and step to 176 and hold until lautering begins.

Questions:
1. Does RIMS and BIAB work well together or should I abandon the idea? Will there be lots of stirring to prevent a stuck mash? Do rice hulls help?
2. Is 15 minutes adequate to lauter from a bag in a cooler with a false bottom or should I plan some extra time? Again, do rice hulls help, (I have lots of them)?
3. Would hanging or tying the bag by the cooler rim prevent the bag from resting on the false bottom; thereby improving flow?
4. Are there bag shapes or features that would help the flow rate in a cooler since I'm pumping?

Thanks

 

[watermelon83]

Wouldn't the bag on the false bottom be to restrictive for a good drain. Seems like two bags almost?

 

[RM-MN]

When you mill fine you create more flour and of course, this clogs up some of the openings in the mesh of the bag but most of them stay open and the bag will drain. When you recirculate, you take some of the small particles that made it through the mesh and put them back into the bag where some of them may catch on the mesh and clog up more. The more you recirculate, the higher the chance of plugging all the mesh.

One of the advantages of the BIAB is the ability to utilize the fine milling and all or nearly all the water in the pot right at the start. With fine milling and plenty of water the conversion happens quickly and the temperature doesn't change much in that amount of time because of the large volume of water. That negates the advantages of your RIMS system.

Try both ways, with recirculation and without and compare the results. If you get the bag clogged while recirculating you know better than anyone that it won't work for you. If you get full conversion and good brewhouse efficiency without recirculating you know that that is viable too.

 

[blizz81]

Some people have used a BIAB bag with their recirculating systems. Some info at least on that aspect of what you're looking for (not sure if those that do this are at quite BIAB-crush levels though):


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/dont-try-home-false-bottom-mesh-bag-502068/


I don't know that you'll really see much in the way of benefits of BIAB if you end up using it as suggested (maybe the cleaning aspect). Vorlauf, you're already recirculating, that's null really, right? Conversion, if your crush is already fairly aggressive, I don't think you'll really see much of a difference between BIAB and non-BIAB in that mash schedule above.

 

[snowman_fs]

Thanks Blizz, that post gives me hope that I'm not going to have a head banger of a brewday.

I can also put a hop straining bag on the end of my return line inside the BIAB to catch some of the small particles and prevent them from going around. If the hop bag fills up and plugs it will also just slip off the return tube and sit inside the grain with a lbs or so of the small stuff stuck inside.

I'm jumping in this weekend and gonna give it a try. I'll report back.

 

[Largus1776]

RE: "spent plenty of $ on AG equipment. I would like to use some of my AG equipment on brew day"

This rig came at it the other way, building up equipment for more control of BIAB:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f244/biab-herms-via-outboard-rims-tube-build-458429/

The additional technology of RIMS and HERMS, allows for tight control of mash temperature and consistent batch to batch repeatability. While the BIAB method still allowing for a quicker and enjoyable brew day.

Brew Stand 1 by Largus1776, on Flickr

 

[ruger988]

I use a bag in my Igloo mash tun and recirculate through a HERMS coil. Never done an all grain brew any other way, but I love it. Stupid simple, great efficiency, clean up is easy (just hose the mash tun out and flip it over to dry, dump the grain bag in the back yard for the deer.

Never had a problem with any clogging and I mill pretty fine.

 

[snowman_fs]

Gave it a go today. No major issues and hit all my numbers. There was some extra suction restriction but it flowed the entire time. My valves were wide open for 30 minutes until I noticed some pulsing so I closed the discharge side until it was smooth again, maybe 3/4 open?

9.5 lb TF MO
0.5 lb Vienna
1.25 oz Hallertau at 60

Mashed at 65c for 45 mins with 8 gal of water and then boiled for 75 minutes.

 

[snowman_fs]

As a follow up, I found a limit of my RIMS + BIAB with false bottom.

I pushed too far, 11 Kg of double milled grain, (no rice) and I was plugged within 5 minutes. I tried to lift and stir a few times but quickly abandoned the RIMS idea and worked with an infusion.

I'll ponder on this one a while, I would like to try big batch RIMS+BIAB mash again.

Single milling, adding rice hulls or some way to expose more surface area of the bag during re-circulation are ideas.

 

[blizz81]

I'll add my own experience with RIMS + BIAB with false bottom: only two batches so far, but our last batch was a barleywine with 22lb of grain conditioned and crushed at 0.028". No rice hulls. Didn't have any flow issues at any point.


Did you have any wheat or rye in your offending ~24lb grist?

 

[snowman_fs]

Did you have any wheat or rye in your offending ~24lb grist?

All malt plus one pound of oats; I suppose the oats could be part of it.

I'll go check my mills gap and try conditioning the grain next time.

 

[blizz81]

All malt plus one pound of oats; I suppose the oats could be part of it.

I'll go check my mills gap and try conditioning the grain next time.

I'm a fan of conditioning at tight crushes - instead of making more flour, you're making more fluffy lautering material. Some people measure when they do it and have specific "you must wait 15 minutes" kind of rules - I have found spraying with a spray bottle just enough to get the grains wet works fine for me (usually run 1/2lb of dry grain through at the end to clean the rollers, but never notice that they gunk up either).