BIAB: wort is all white after mash and stinks???
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That's weird, something is off.
How finely was the grain milled?
How much liquid (wort?) is there on the bottom of that kettle?
Why is it white? Looks like steeped flaked wheat/oats.
Is there much liquid still in the bag? Maybe the pores have clogged?
How finely was the grain milled?
How much liquid (wort?) is there on the bottom of that kettle?
Why is it white? Looks like steeped flaked wheat/oats.
Is there much liquid still in the bag? Maybe the pores have clogged?
Was 1.056 your measured OG?
If you used phosphoric, I'd reference this thread for bad phosphoric acid:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/bag-will-not-drain-why.693088/
Was your mash pH way off?
If you used phosphoric, I'd reference this thread for bad phosphoric acid:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/bag-will-not-drain-why.693088/
Was your mash pH way off?
RWurster
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I make a lot of hefeweisen beers (from 100% wheat to 60% wheat) and grind my grains very finely (twice ground). my wort almost always looks exactly like that and my beers come out very well. My mash has never stunk though and all my beers are brew in a bag.
In my experience, the impossible-to-drain bag comes from a very acidic mash — like, well below 5. When you say it stinks, what did it stink like?
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
I think i did something stupid.
So it’s been >6 months since i brewed. I ordered 4 all grain kits about a year ago. I thought I had 1 left over. I got these kits from adventures in homebrewing who send all the grains mixed together in a bag
I went to brew and found a bag labeled as a Hef kit (a hef kit that i have done multiple times over the years). I didn’t look too close at it though. I checked to make sure my mill was good (set about as thin as it goes). I usually mill twice- only milled once this time. In fact, my kids did the milling for me! One poured while the other pushed the drill trigger. I was across the room getting water ready.
i definitely added minerals and acid correctly. I triple checked it all and have used this water recipe a number of times.
I was lazy and didn’t check mash pH. I checked pH at end of mash after reading responses here and it was 5.6.
i started with about 6.4 gal. I ended the mash with 3 gal in kettle and 3.4 gal in the bag with grains. I tried pressing and squeezing it out and it’s impossible.
So i started going over what could have happened… looking at my emails for order history. I think i used a large bag of crystal 10L!!! It was in the wrong bag obviously.
i added another pic of what the wort looks like after the mash to the link above.
The SG was 1.0125. Way too low. When i say it stunk… it smells musty/not right. Like stale water. I’ve been brewing beer on and off for 10 years… don’t have a very refined smell or taste, but it doesn’t smell typical.
do you think it could have been a bag of crystal 10 L? It’s the only thing that’s missing. It must have been in a bag of the old hef kit.
So it’s been >6 months since i brewed. I ordered 4 all grain kits about a year ago. I thought I had 1 left over. I got these kits from adventures in homebrewing who send all the grains mixed together in a bag
I went to brew and found a bag labeled as a Hef kit (a hef kit that i have done multiple times over the years). I didn’t look too close at it though. I checked to make sure my mill was good (set about as thin as it goes). I usually mill twice- only milled once this time. In fact, my kids did the milling for me! One poured while the other pushed the drill trigger. I was across the room getting water ready.
i definitely added minerals and acid correctly. I triple checked it all and have used this water recipe a number of times.
I was lazy and didn’t check mash pH. I checked pH at end of mash after reading responses here and it was 5.6.
i started with about 6.4 gal. I ended the mash with 3 gal in kettle and 3.4 gal in the bag with grains. I tried pressing and squeezing it out and it’s impossible.
So i started going over what could have happened… looking at my emails for order history. I think i used a large bag of crystal 10L!!! It was in the wrong bag obviously.
i added another pic of what the wort looks like after the mash to the link above.
The SG was 1.0125. Way too low. When i say it stunk… it smells musty/not right. Like stale water. I’ve been brewing beer on and off for 10 years… don’t have a very refined smell or taste, but it doesn’t smell typical.
do you think it could have been a bag of crystal 10 L? It’s the only thing that’s missing. It must have been in a bag of the old hef kit.
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C10 is pretty light. It would have steeped, if there was no diastatic malt present. But when steeped, it doesn't look like milk, AFAIK.
Old malt, especially when stored in a damp place, can smell very stale or even like mold.
None explains why so much water/wort is trapped in the grain bag. But then again, I never tried brewing with 50% C10. If there was 30% wheat malt mixed in, it would have provided at least enough enzymes for conversion of some of it, if not all.
Old malt, especially when stored in a damp place, can smell very stale or even like mold.
None explains why so much water/wort is trapped in the grain bag. But then again, I never tried brewing with 50% C10. If there was 30% wheat malt mixed in, it would have provided at least enough enzymes for conversion of some of it, if not all.
You may be onto something...
I reckon he used 5.5 ml Lactic Acid (88%), per his recipe (page 3).
That seems like a large amount for that grain bill, unless he has stone hard water.
On page 4 of the images he shows a glass handle jar with the white "wort," it's translucent.
What was your mash temperature?
Broken Crow
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As it had been a while since you last brewed, any chance your BIAB bag went into the laundry and held some residual detergent or bleach? The sample pic looks like what I see in my wash tub on the rinse cycle of one of my white loads.
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
It has been awhile. Could have been rusty… that’s why i was wondering if i messed something up.
i never laundry that wilser bag or use soap or bleach on it. I spray the heck out of it with a garden hose, and submerge it and ring it out. Then hang it to dry. It is an old bag now… i think i probably got it in 2015.
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
154 deg. Dropped to 150 after 90 mins.
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
The Brewfather app was telling me 5.5 ml lactic acid. I had compared it with bru’n water excel sheet (back when i was brewing more often) and it always was pretty close to the same results. I have RO, so i build the profile back up from that. I have made this beer 3-4 times with this same recipe (and remember using 5.5 ml lactic acid because it seemed high).
That low of an SG means your mash didn't work.
If you are confident about the water additions, then maybe we can rule that out. You sure you didn't add calcium hydroxide instead of calcium chloride or something?
Did the grain smell musty or off before you mashed it? What do you have left - is it possible your helpers left out the pilsner and/or wheat malt? You have almost 10 pounds of those... if they did get subbed with 10 lbs of crystal, then there was nothing in your mash with diastatic power for the flaked oats and wheat.
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
These are the “grains” after dumping in my composter. They don’t even look right.
CaCl2 was right- it has that characteristic small pellet look. My gypsum is in a big ziplock bag (have way to much). I kee my calcium hydroxide in another part of the house (don’t use it anymore). NaCl has a charcuterie look too… all those minerals look different than each other really.
The “grains” didn’t seem off before but i didn’t look close at them. They were in a plastic bag. Didn’t smell off. Whatever i used would have been 1-2 years old (2 years max- never bought in bulk until 2 years ago and my last order was like 10 months ago).
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I zoomed in on that image, and to be honest, it looks like rice! Can it be?
I see a few glimmers of tan husk/grain material in the background, but most is white or off-white.
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
I zoomed in on that image, and to be honest, it looks like rice! Can it be?
I see a few glimmers of tan husk/grain material in the background, but most is white or off-white.
omg. It’s rice. I just went to check what i thought was my flaked rice bag (one other thing i had bulk of) and found my crystal 10 in the bag labeled flaked rice. Man i really screwed up my labeling.
Im an idiot. Didn’t look at the bags that closely and threw everything in the wrong bags.
Epic thread 
Sure as salted pretzels.You need to train up the help to do some quality checks while milling
[...] while milling? Before milling!
Best when selecting your grain, even before it hits the scale.
I now wonder where the stench came from, though... Had it been sitting, wet, in that mash bag for a day (or 2)? That'll do it.
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
No, maybe the smell was about normal for 10 lbs of hot, wet flaked rice??? Lol. It just didn’t smell right. It was about a year old looking at my email order history, but i kept it sealed away.
You would have thought i would have noticed it was all flaked rice when i grabbed the bag out for the kids…
I’m just disappointed i don’t have a beer going. Was really looking forward to having a new beer on tap for my daughters bday party in 1.5 weeks. I placed an overpriced amaon prime order for flaked rice that should get here tomorrow. Hopefully I’ll have enough time to brew it up in a day or two.
You would have thought i would have noticed it was all flaked rice when i grabbed the bag out for the kids…
I’m just disappointed i don’t have a beer going. Was really looking forward to having a new beer on tap for my daughters bday party in 1.5 weeks. I placed an overpriced amaon prime order for flaked rice that should get here tomorrow. Hopefully I’ll have enough time to brew it up in a day or two.
Don't tell Bezos without receiving adequate compensation, but that name can stick.
What do you need flaked rice for? Brewing a light ale?
You can use regular rice from the supermarket, instead. Just simmer it in ample water for an hour (or 2) and that becomes part of your strike water for the mash.
Yes, you can have that beer ready by end of next week.
FloppyKnockers
Well-Known Member
When will the HefeSake be ready?
1. Label your ingredients before putting away in storage.
2. Don't let kids mill your grain or do other critical brewing chores. Give them a root beer and let them watch and learn.
3. Have a few beers and laugh it off. Shiat happens.
2. Don't let kids mill your grain or do other critical brewing chores. Give them a root beer and let them watch and learn.
3. Have a few beers and laugh it off. Shiat happens.
Kickass
Well-Known Member
We’re laughing with you...
FloppyKnockers
Well-Known Member
^^ No truer words.
I have about a pound of could be black patent... could be chocolate... could be debittered black malt.
Just waiting for a recipe where it doesn't matter what it is, it'll be good either way.
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
This is definitely one of my biggest brew screw ups. Up there with the time I had a full glass carboy break on me (thankfully in my garage and no injury) and the time i had 7 gallons of purchased distilled water leak in my trunk (containers tipped over and lids were old and wore out and not leak proof any more).
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
yeah… i have learned this over the years, so you think I’d know better. I have had a few times (with brewing and other stuff) where ii put something in a bag and think to myself “oh yeah I’ll remember what’s in here” … few months or a year goes by and i have no idea what’s in the bag.
I’m not sure what happened here. I think i meant to put the rice in the rice bag but looks like i out the rice in the old hef bag and the crystal in the rice bag. Probably was rushing cleaning up between the mash and the boil.
RDWHAHB!
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
Hahaha. Yes, i have enough 2 row and crystal 10L for a light ale i like to make. Just need the flaked rice. Good tip- i think i do rememebr reading that one here back when i was brewing more often. I’ll cancel my Amazon order.
So if a recipe calls for 1 lb flaked rice is that 1 pound before simmering it in water and do i have to mill at all? Seems like i may have read a while back that i could omit the rice for BIAB or am i mis-remembering?
FloppyKnockers
Well-Known Member
Not as much of a screw up rather than just plain misfortune, but one time I pulled a half keg out of the kegerator and set it aside. Apparently the liquid out pop-up wasn't up to its job. It slowly leaked all night and into the next afternoon. Was there a puddle? Oh, no, that would make it easy to spot. Instead it filled all the grout lines throughout the kitchen, breakfast nook, dining room, and entry way. 2.5 gallons can go a long way.
What does this have to do with your situation? Absolutely nothing. Just thought I would share one of my blunders to help mend the wounds of yours.
What does this have to do with your situation? Absolutely nothing. Just thought I would share one of my blunders to help mend the wounds of yours.
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
Haha. Oh man, that had to have sucked so bad cleaning up. Thanks for that. Man… actually, i too have had a poppet stick and leak all over. It was in my standup fridge kegerator. I forget why i took the QD out line off… maybe to hook another keg up? Mine leaked out of the Fridge a little, but fortunately we noticed it before it was a bigger mess.
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
Oh and one the last “new” methods i had started doing (the last time I was brewing) was transferring the beer (closed loop) to the keg when I’m 4 points from FG and having it self carbonate with a spunding valve. It usually only took 1-2 days for it to get to the point where i transferred to the keg and then another day or two in the keg to self carbonate. I had really liked this technique- big time saver and hopefully cuts down on oxidation. I think i read about it on here or Reddit. This is probably old news by this point. I tend to get re-interested in brewing every 6-12 months or so.
Yes, replace dry for dry.
IOW, replace a pound of dry flaked rice with a pound of regular or instant rice, dry.
No-no. Do NOT mill rice!
Rice kernels are crazy hard and can ruin your mill, and worse.
Use common (unflavored) white rice, short grain or long grain, whatever you have or can get (supermarket, Walmart). You can even use quick or instant rice, they'll cook faster, but cost more.
Note: Do NOT use flavored rice, such as Jasmine or Basmati rice.
Just for reference, a pound of rice is a little more than 2 cups. Say, 2 "somewhat heaped" cups.
Combine with 4-6 times the volume of water. That is 2-3 quarts of water per 2 cups of rice!
The volume of water is not that critical as long as you have ample water. Bring to a boil and turn down to let it slowly simmer for an hour or longer. Check a few times along the way, give it a stir. Add more water if it gets too thick.* You don't want to scorch it.
After an hour (or more) slow cooking it should be a medium thin slurry of white fluffy rice bits. There should not be any hard bits left.
This thin "rice pudding" will be part of your strike water for the mash.
* I recommend cooking the rice in a pot on your stove or induction plate, not on your (large) brew burner.
fun4stuff
Well-Known Member
Yes, replace dry for dry.
IOW, replace a pound of dry flaked rice with a pound of regular or instant rice, dry.
No-no. Do NOT mill rice!
Rice kernels are crazy hard and can ruin your mill, and worse.
Use common (unflavored) white rice, short grain or long grain, whatever you have or can get (supermarket, Walmart). You can even use quick or instant rice, they'll cook faster, but cost more.
Note: Do NOT use flavored rice, such as Jasmine or Basmati rice.
Just for reference, a pound of rice is a little more than 2 cups. Say, 2 "somewhat heaped" cups.
Combine with 4-6 times the volume of water. That is 2-3 quarts of water per 2 cups of rice!
The volume of water is not that critical as long as you have ample water. Bring to a boil and turn down to let it slowly simmer for an hour or longer. Check a few times along the way, give it a stir. Add more water if it gets too thick.* You don't want to scorch it.
After an hour (or more) slow cooking it should be a medium thin slurry of white fluffy rice bits. There should not be any hard bits left.
This thin "rice pudding" will be part of your strike water for the mash.
* I recommend cooking the rice in a pot on your stove or induction plate, not on your (large) brew burner.
awesome, thanks!
Man, this is thread is fun! It has it all, a mysterie, drama, comedy, a (kind of) happy ending. Brilliant!
Whole rice needs to be cereal mashed for the most efficient use. Kunse has a process that I use,since I bought a 25 lb bag of basmati rice and found out I like jasmine. I soak it overnite in the same amount of water you would use if you were cooking it to eat. I then heat it to 189* and let it rest 20 min. It will look like its ready to eat and be very sticky.Add cold brewing liquor to get to 155-160 and add 10% pils malt. You want it to be 150-154*,rest 30 min. it should be very loose and the grains will be just tiny bits,and the liquid clear (no starch).
At this point I mash in the main mash at 143* and bring the rice to a boil for 20-30 min, add to main mash to step to 160*and rest 30 min,and you know the rest. I do both BIAB and MIAB. I'm fermenting with 833 a beer made with 5 lbs rice and 8.25 lbs barley and didn't need any rice hulls.
At this point I mash in the main mash at 143* and bring the rice to a boil for 20-30 min, add to main mash to step to 160*and rest 30 min,and you know the rest. I do both BIAB and MIAB. I'm fermenting with 833 a beer made with 5 lbs rice and 8.25 lbs barley and didn't need any rice hulls.
I have the understanding that rice doesn't need to be cereal mashed per se. Boiling it for an hour will gelatinize it just as well, which is what we're after. But yeah, you could cereal mash them, as long as the kernels are fully hydrated, which takes time.
I do the same with corn as I do for rice, boil it, whether it be flaked, grits, or groats, but never used whole kernels.
