BIAB Water Adjustments

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Foosier

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So I have be taking a look at Bru'n water to see what I might be able to do to improve my beers. Based on my water and BIAB volumes it seems I am routinely missing optimal mash PH. This seems to be a consequence of using a larger volume of water to do a full volume mash. The lower ratio of grain to water cannot lower the PH of a full volume (usually 7.5 gallons for a 5 gal bacth) mash. I am guessing others have run into this issue too. If you BIAB, do you adjust your water to hit optimal mash PH to account for this condition?

My beers come out good without adjustments, but if there are easy steps to make it better, then it seems the next logical step. What do you do?
 
I started using Bru'nwater because I thought that my lighter brews were coming out astringent. I believe that your statements about the larger mash volumes affecting the pH are correct.

That said, if you are happy with your brews, don't mess with what you are doing!
 
I drop a teaspoon of acid blend on my five gallon batches and with my water it brings the pH right in line. Without the acid blend I will see close to 6.O pH which I think is way high.
 
That is what I was noticing with Bru'n Water. PH would be consistently in the 6.0 range. Given that PH can have an impact on mash efficiency and a number of other factors it seems like it might be an easy element to incorporate into the process. Kind of surprised no one has really talked about this before because this appears to be something that those of us who are using BIAB may be consistently missing out on.
 
I've been reading a bit on Water chem on here and in Palmer's new book. I am getting my pH meter on Christmas to really see where I am with regards to the mash pH. I travel a lot here in the US and always visit as many breweries as I can. I've found that the breweries that have really good beer across a wide range of styles are adjusting their water to match the beer. I also find that the places that have maybe one or 2 good beers but the rest are so so (taste like my home-brew) aren't doing anything with the water as far as mash pH. I love the BIABrewer site but haven't seen a whole lot of water adjustment conversations on there although it looks like that is picking up. Looking forward to hearing more about it. Bru'n water is showing I need to add some gypsum and calcium chloride to hit my mash target. I will brew next Sunday so I will see how that goes.
 
It is much easier to maintain a reasonable mash PH if you mash with a more traditional water/grain ratio. Use a spare bucket to sparge to boil volume and you're set.
 
Would you have to treat the sparge water too like with traditional 3 vessel brewing?
 
You probably should, but I never do. I use the brewers friend water calculator and select all salts added to mash. With a single batch sparge I don't think PH can get too out of line. It may help that my sparge water is never much over 150.
 
Bru'n Water seems to advocate for acidifying your sparge water. Luckily my LHBS and a micro are on the same water supply as I am. I plan on asking them what they do with our water. Seems to me that I need to add something like 1ml/gal of lactic acid per gallon of water to ensue my mash hits 5.2ish.

Based on Monkeyman's comments it seems like this mat be another element which could be easy to control to improve the quality of my brews.
 
WoodlandBrew, took a look at the info you linked. This confirms what I had guessed I was seeing in the Bru'n Water tool. Checked out the EZ Water tool and it makes it even more clear. It really seems like we should be adding some acid to our mash to ensure the PH is correct when using BIAB.
 
Would you have to treat the sparge water too like with traditional 3 vessel brewing?

That would depend on how you do BIAB. The original premise of BIAB was to use the full volume of water in the kettle and to do no sparge at all. My kettle is a little small so I add a spare step to compensate and pick up a little efficiency too but my sparge is perhaps as much as half a gallon so I don't think there is any need to treat that small amount. I also don't need to worry about extracting tannins if the pH of the sparge is high because I use cold water. To extract tannins you need a pH over 6.O and the temperature has to be over 170.
 
It really seems like we should be adding some acid to our mash to ensure the PH is correct when using BIAB.

Unfortunately, mash pH is a complicated subject and I think you are missing some of the more important concepts. First, mash pH is not dependent on the volume of the mash. Woodlandbrew states it nicely:

"Because it is the grain driving the strength of the buffer, the pH change of a volume of acid will not be effected by the amount of water in your mash tun. Meaning that whether you have 2 gallons or 20 gallons of water, it will not affect how much 1mL of acid changes the pH."

It is important to understand that pH is on a logarithmic scale, so changes in water volume have relatively little effect on the pH of a solution.

Secondly, initial mash pH is determined by your water chemistry (ie. residual alkalinity and mineral content) and your grain bill (types and weights of grains used). You can get pretty darn close to a perfect mash pH if you managed these two parameters. Adding acids to the mash should be only be done on an as-needed basis if you cannot hit your initial mash pH by adjusting your water chemistry. That is the intent of the multitude of water chemistry spreadsheets available online. Brewing using the BIAB method doesn't generally change the grain bill, so there is no reason to assume that acid should added to all BIAB brews.

Assuming that proper mash pH is established through by balancing water chemistry and the grain bill, then I think the only real consideration for BIAB is whether to acidify the sparge water to reduce tannin extraction. I do a no-sparge BIAB with full volume mash and so far my mash pH has always hit 5.2-5.4 without acid additions, even for lighter beers like blondes and pale ales.

For some additional reading on mash pH, check out Chapter 15 - Understanding the Mash pH in How to Brew and additional discussion of no sparge pH in this thread. The brewing water chemistry primer thread is also a great resource.
 

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