BIAB for beginners

[johnkroll88]

I have brewed a few extract kits and I would like to eventually begin brewing some all grain recipes using the brew in a bag method. I was just wondering if a 10 gallon kettle would be sufficient for most recipes or if the volume would require something much larger. Thanks for the input.

 

[photobru]

10 gallons should work for most 5 gallon batches, you may run out of space if you want to brew something high gravity, but then you could always sparge. I have an 8 gallon kettle and I wish I'd just gone for a 10 right off the bat.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Rule of thumb is whatever size batch your brewing double the pot size. 5 gallon batch=10 gallon pot

 

[Owly055]

I have brewed a few extract kits and I would like to eventually begin brewing some all grain recipes using the brew in a bag method. I was just wondering if a 10 gallon kettle would be sufficient for most recipes or if the volume would require something much larger. Thanks for the input.

10 gallon should be more than adequate for most 5 gallon brews. If you don't have enough space, you can always mash with less water, and sparge the bag by pouring hot water over the bag... or dunking it.

I'm not sure I would describe BIAB as being for beginners. A number of brewers have switched over from conventional mash tun. It's simple and versatile, and you can equal or exceed the mash efficiency of many conventional brewers.... particularly if you sparge the bag.

H.W.

 

[SeraW]

10 Gallon is just fine. If you're doing 2.5 to 3 gal batches, like many BIAB recipes are, though, 10 gal might be overkill for your pot. (Not impossible, but perhaps more difficult than it needs to be). Just check carefully.

...I'm not sure I would describe BIAB as being for beginners...
H.W.

I wouldn't say it's NOT for beginners, either. Speaking for myself, I started on BIAB All-Grain brewing and have several good batches under my belt already. It's a very accessible method.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

I say it's great for beginners, as opposed to three-vessel brewing which is more involved and time consuming. It's just that once you start with BIAB, you may never need to go any further, especially if you stick with one pot that can be heated, so it's for beginners, intermediate and advanced brewers. I teach homebrewing, and we skip extract all together and go right to 10-gallon BIAB.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I say it's great for beginners, as opposed to three-vessel brewing which is more involved and time consuming. It's just that once you start with BIAB, you may never need to go any further, especially if you stick with one pot that can be heated, so it's for beginners, intermediate and advanced brewers. I teach homebrewing, and we skip extract all together and go right to 10-gallon BIAB.

Yup.I started straight out with 10 gallon EBIAB.I never did all grain before.My beer taste great and was not to much to learn.

 

[Gavin C]

10 gallon pot works great for my 5.5 gallon batches. I could do up to an OG of 1.08 full volume no sparge in my pot. I don't tend to drink a lot of big beers. If I was doing a RIS for example I would likely do a 2.75 gallon batch and bottle. Can see ever wanting a keg of a monster beer like that.

A full volume mash after doughing in. 5.5 gallon Batch 1.055 ish OG

I love the simplicity of BIAB. Really the only difference is in the lautering process.

BIAB: grains are removed from wort
3 vessel: wort is removed from grains

The bag is the equivalent of one huge unblockable manifold/braided hose/false bottom.

I'm sure there are limits to the method but thus far I have been able to tackle any recipe I have wanted. I would highly recommend this fun approach to AG brewing.

 

[johnkroll88]

I really appreciate all of the insight and feedback I really enjoy extract I just want to move towards something that will allow me to be a bit more experimental with some recipes . Thanks again everyone!

 

[Owly055]

I say it's great for beginners, as opposed to three-vessel brewing which is more involved and time consuming. It's just that once you start with BIAB, you may never need to go any further, especially if you stick with one pot that can be heated, so it's for beginners, intermediate and advanced brewers. I teach homebrewing, and we skip extract all together and go right to 10-gallon BIAB.

"Going further" implies that there is an advantage to going with a mash tun or a three vessel system, etc. That it somehow will produce a better quality, or more professional product. Those who have done both have repeatedly pointed out that this is not the case. The only real advantage is less trub. The vorlauf portion of the process uses the grain bed as a filter. You can do this with BIAB also... I have. Sparging is standard with "conventional" mashing, an clearly yields more efficiency. You can sparge bag and bump your efficiency up significantly. You can also use a much finer crush which increases efficiency and speeds up conversion. I've hit numbers in excess of 90%, though I'm not sure it really makes sense to shoot for those numbers. Time is a significant factor. You can complete a mash in as little as 20 minutes with complete conversion, and good attenuation. I can complete an entire brew day 2 1/2 hours without compromising quality if my grain is pre-crushed. I cut mashing time, heating time, boiling time, and cooling time. A fine crush allows a 20 minute mash to achieve complete conversion and result in a highly fermentable wort if done correctly. The price is about half a bottle of beer due to increased trub. I can't tell any difference in attenuation between the 20 minute mash and an hour mash. I achieve a faster heat by using a 2500 watt floating heating element I built. It will heat at a rate of one degree every 10 seconds along with the gas stove element. With a hard boil, you can get away with a 45 minute boil with no ill effects. I have a powerful burner. The immersion chiller chills the brew to pitch temp in about 10 minutes, a bit of stirring with a paint stirrer reduces this to about 8 minutes. Being organized makes all the difference. Doing clean up during the boil, measuring hops during the mash, cleaning up and putting things away as the opportunity presents itself.

I challenge any conventional brewer to do a 2.5 hour brew day.... It can't be done!!


H.W.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

"Going further" implies that there is an advantage to going with a mash tun or a three vessel system, etc. That it somehow will produce a better quality, or more professional product. Those who have done both have repeatedly pointed out that this is not the case. The only real advantage is less trub. The vorlauf portion of the process uses the grain bed as a filter. You can do this with BIAB also... I have. Sparging is standard with "conventional" mashing, an clearly yields more efficiency. You can sparge bag and bump your efficiency up significantly. You can also use a much finer crush which increases efficiency and speeds up conversion. I've hit numbers in excess of 90%, though I'm not sure it really makes sense to shoot for those numbers. Time is a significant factor. You can complete a mash in as little as 20 minutes with complete conversion, and good attenuation. I can complete an entire brew day 2 1/2 hours without compromising quality if my grain is pre-crushed. I cut mashing time, heating time, boiling time, and cooling time. A fine crush allows a 20 minute mash to achieve complete conversion and result in a highly fermentable wort if done correctly. The price is about half a bottle of beer due to increased trub. I can't tell any difference in attenuation between the 20 minute mash and an hour mash. I achieve a faster heat by using a 2500 watt floating heating element I built. It will heat at a rate of one degree every 10 seconds along with the gas stove element. With a hard boil, you can get away with a 45 minute boil with no ill effects. I have a powerful burner. The immersion chiller chills the brew to pitch temp in about 10 minutes, a bit of stirring with a paint stirrer reduces this to about 8 minutes. Being organized makes all the difference. Doing clean up during the boil, measuring hops during the mash, cleaning up and putting things away as the opportunity presents itself.

I challenge any conventional brewer to do a 2.5 hour brew day.... It can't be done!!


H.W.

<sigh>

Just my 2 cents.
As much as I appreciate your enthusiasm for BIAB, I think one of the points you and some of the other adherents here and on biabrewer.org routinely miss is that we all don't share your values as to why we like to brew the way we brew. Some like to make gadgets, some like to imitate pro systems, some like to reduce time, some like to dig into the science, some are into competitions, some like being minimalists, and so on and so on and so on.

And while I can understand some frustration from BIAB adherents when someone implies that BIAB is somehow less than "real brewing", this constant drum beat of posts about the superiority of BIAB, rapid mashes, no-chill, etc., does nothing to help the cause of BIAB brewing if it alienates those who don't share your particular set of values. It just sounds like frustration. It has the feel of comic book geeks arguing about who is better, Batman or Superman.

Share your enthusiasm, answer questions, spread the word, but win adherents by being helpful, not by running down others' choices. Obey Wheaton's Law.

 

[Lepetitnormand]

Share your enthusiasm, answer questions, spread the word, but win adherents by being helpful, not by running down others' choices. Obey Wheaton's Law.

Not looking to enter a debate for which I do not have any knowledge but well written and this apply to so much more than just brewing

 

[Owly055]

<sigh>

Just my 2 cents.
As much as I appreciate your enthusiasm for BIAB, I think one of the points you and some of the other adherents here and on biabrewer.org routinely miss is that we all don't share your values as to why we like to brew the way we brew. Some like to make gadgets, some like to imitate pro systems, some like to reduce time, some like to dig into the science, some are into competitions, some like being minimalists, and so on and so on and so on.

And while I can understand some frustration from BIAB adherents when someone implies that BIAB is somehow less than "real brewing", this constant drum beat of posts about the superiority of BIAB, rapid mashes, no-chill, etc., does nothing to help the cause of BIAB brewing if it alienates those who don't share your particular set of values. It just sounds like frustration. It has the feel of comic book geeks arguing about who is better, Batman or Superman.

Share your enthusiasm, answer questions, spread the word, but win adherents by being helpful, not by running down others' choices. Obey Wheaton's Law.

I'm not intending to run down conventional brewers, just to point out that looking at it as a "better" way that will produce a better product is not realistic. If the goal is to produce specific beer types that need a decoction mash to achieve a very specific flavor profile and body consistently, BIAB is not the tool for the job. If you want to produce good quality beer, with a minimal investment in equipment and time... it IS the tool for the job.

I completely understand the satisfaction of building an elaborate brew stand and three vessel rims or herms system with automatic controls. I build a lot of elaborate systems for various functions, and hope to build an automated mashing reverse circulation system at some point. The challenge of making a system that you can program and set up, program, and will run the entire brew process right up to pitching temp is attractive. My funds are short, or I would be putting one together right now. I envision a reverse circulation system with an external grain basket that drains down into the boil kettle... which will be a stainless steel conical. A hop system similar to that on the Pico Brew, etc.
Will it make better beer than my current BIAB system....... I don't think so, but it might make it easier to maintain a consistent mash schedule.

Will it be "cool"........ yes......... Does it make sense really? no


H.W.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

Will it be "cool"........ yes......... Does it make sense really? no

And just by adding two little words, "Does it make sense really for me?", you can change the tone of all of your preceding words, and not make it sound like you're judging others for their own values.

I love most of what you and others are sharing, but little digs like this make me, and I'm sure some others, want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Okay, so I'll let it go and move on. Keep on brewing!