BIAB - detrmining strike volume and temp

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GurGinator28

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I'm new to BIAB and wanted to get some input on a reliable way to figure out my volume and strike temp for a full boil, no-sparge, with mash out, brew session for a 5.5gal batch.

MoreBeer's 7 Deadly C's IPA

Grain:

15 lbs American Pale
.5 lb White Wheat
.5 lb Crystal 40L
.5 lb Carapils

Hops:
1 oz Cluster (60min)
1 oz Centennial (15min)
1 oz Columbus (15min)
1 oz Cascade (5min)
1 oz Chinook (5min)
1 oz Citra (1min)
1 oz Crystal (1min)
1 oz Centennial, Chinook, & Citra (Dry Hop)

Mash @ 152 for 60 min w/ 60 min boil

I used brewer's friend and got the following. The volume seemed high?

Total mash water needed 9.33
Grain absorption losses -2.06
Starting boil volume 7.26
Boil off losses -1.5
Hops absorption losses -0.26
Amount going into fermentor 5.5
Total: 9.33

I don't know my boil off yet, but I assumed the higher end. I have a 15 gal (18" diameter x 14" tall). I'm debating just running a test boil to get a grasp of it. Grain/hop absorbation is another thing I don't have experience with.

Are these good numbers to assume for a first timer? Any suggestions on a mash in temp? 160? Thanks in advance for any help.
 
priceless's calculator gives a bit less
http://pricelessbrewing.github.io/B...ettleID=18&LossTrub=0.2&Gabs=0.08&Habs=0.0365

I would not bother doing a boil off test. I would suggest checking the volume in the kettle during the boil. At the very least, mark your spoon with finished batch size and check how you are progressing prior to adding your 15 min hop addition. If your volume at this point is high hold off on the final hops and extend the boil 10-15 minutes.

Try 9 gallons...
 
+1.

Mark you spoon at 5gal and then 1-2 gallon increments to your max capacity.
I don't worry too much about exact strike volume, if you start with 8-9 gallons you can easily top off to the desired preboil volume.

Also after the first couple batches you will be able to measure (and calc) your grain absorption, boil off rate, etc. to dial in your process.

Try to check the gravity and volume pre-boil to check your efficiency.

A good guess would be 1 gallon lost to grain absorption and 1-1.5 gallons per hour boil off.
 
+1 to the advice from the other posters.

A quick calculation of your recipe looks like too much water.

I'd go with 1.25 boil off to start + .075 gal/lb grain absorption (this allows for minimal squeezing - if you squeeze like there's no tomorrow, it will be closer to .05 gal/lb). Don't worry about hops absorption losses and dump it all in the fermenter after the boil. With these figures, that puts you around 8 gals even for total water. Pre-boil volume should be 7.02g, accounting for shrinkage at temp, and 5.5g post-boil when cooled.
 
I will add, with your large 18" diameter pot, your boil off can vary widely depending on how hard your boiling and weather conditions...this can be a good thing if you learn how to use it...monitor volume as you go, and you can crank up the heat if you are heading high on volume.
 
Why not give your pot a run through to see what your boil off rate is? I'm using a 15g megapot 1.2, and have my numbers pretty well dialed in (within 1/10th of a gallon each time).. Beersmith calculating 9.37 gallons for your recipe (assuming you don't squeeze.. just let the bag drip)..

I did a boiloff test before my first brew.. I got 1.75 gph.. But my actual boil off with wort is actually 1.66.. I'd do a short boil for 30 minutes.. check the rate, and take 1/10th off.. I'm also pretty type A FWIW.. :mug:
 
I'd go with 1.25 boil off to start + .075 gal/lb grain absorption (this allows for minimal squeezing - if you squeeze like there's no tomorrow, it will be closer to .05 gal/lb). Don't worry about hops absorption losses and dump it all in the fermenter after the boil. With these figures, that puts you around 8 gals even for total water. Pre-boil volume should be 7.02g, accounting for shrinkage at temp, and 5.5g post-boil when cooled.

I just ran this thru BeerSmith and came up with 8.21g total & 6.97g pre-boil. Dough-in @ 158° to achieve 152° rest temp.
 
I did a boiloff test before my first brew.. I got 1.75 gph.. But my actual boil off with wort is actually 1.66.. I'd do a short boil for 30 minutes.. check the rate, and take 1/10th off.. I'm also pretty type A FWIW.. :mug:

I have the same BK and get 1.25g/hr consistently. Just goes to show that there are quite a few variables that influence the B/O rate, not to mention all the other inputs that go into brewing a batch.
 
Totally agree.. Actually my numbers were wrong anyway! Lol.. Forgot to change the batch size to 5.5 after changing it to my actual pot..
 
Why not give your pot a run through to see what your boil off rate is? I'm using a 15g megapot 1.2, and have my numbers pretty well dialed in (within 1/10th of a gallon each time).. Beersmith calculating 9.37 gallons for your recipe (assuming you don't squeeze.. just let the bag drip)..

I did a boiloff test before my first brew.. I got 1.75 gph.. But my actual boil off with wort is actually 1.66.. I'd do a short boil for 30 minutes.. check the rate, and take 1/10th off.. I'm also pretty type A FWIW.. :mug:

Boil-off rate for a pot of water vs a pot of wort will not be the same. A vanilla pure water boil-off rate is always going to be higher than the boil-off with wort. Actually, the higher your gravity, the slower your boil-off rate will be for a given heat input. When comparing a 1.070 vs 1.100 gravity beer, it isn't too much of a difference, but pure water (1.000, approx) vs 1.070 will be a pretty significant difference in boil-off rate.

Obviously it gives you somewhat of a starting point, but you can just find a starting point with a real brew and make adjustments for future batches without going through the hassle of boiling just water and get the same results.
 
I just ran this thru BeerSmith and came up with 8.21g total & 6.97g pre-boil. Dough-in @ 158° to achieve 152° rest temp.


Seems pretty close to what I was planning on shooting for. I'm pretty stoked to try it... Attempting to fit a brew day into a current keezer project
 
How does one factor in the specialty malt in terms of determining efficiency?

My pre-boil gravity was 1.068 @ 7 gallons. (FG 1.075 @ 5.5 gal)

Grain:

15 lbs American Pale
.5 lb White Wheat
.5 lb Crystal 40L
.5 lb Carapils

An online calculator gave me about 77%. Sound right?
 
GurGinator28, you need to get the BIABacus at www.biabrewer.info, as it will provide you MUCH better estimates for volumes, grain bill, etc. than all the estimates made for your brewhouse from a program such as Beersmith.

Go to this forum to introduce yourself and get registered on that site. Then you'll be able to download the BIABacus from here.

No offense to anyone, but there's no better place to get accurate informed info on BIAB than BIABrewer.info. I know many people are active on both that forum as well as this one, which covers a much broader array of topics.

[I apologize if I'm not supposed to provide links to another forum, but I searched the rules before posting and didn't see anything about this.]
 
GurGinator28, you need to get the BIABacus at www.biabrewer.info, as it will provide you MUCH better estimates for volumes, grain bill, etc. than all the estimates made for your brewhouse from a program such as Beersmith.

I find this a bit hard to believe. Admittedly, I'm not familiar with BIABacus, though I've seen it referenced many times around HBT, but have not personally set eyes on it. As someone who uses Beersmith exclusively for recipe formulation and volumes, temps, etc., which I've found to be spot on with actual results, I must admit that you've piqued my curiosity as to what BIABiacus can do that BS can't?
 
FWIW, I joined the biabrewer site back when I first started researching BIAB and had downloaded Biababcus back then and did find it somewhat intimidating, as many do. When I started brewing in earnest I went with BeerSmith because of the extra features and it seemed to be what most people here were using and of course it too is rather intimidating at first blush as many of you know. I have been using Beersmith for the majority of my brews and comparing it to the various online calculators for a reality check.

Prompted by some comments in a different thread I revisited Biabacus again today and was able to set it up rather easily because I had a better idea of what was required due to my experience with dialing in Beersmith. Bottom line was it really didn't give me much different results that what I got from Beersmith for the same recipe. Now thats not to say with more time and experience that you couldn't tweak Biabacus to a finer point for BIAB than Beersmith and I'll continue to experiment with it, but Beersmith will remain my go to for the time being...
 
I've looked at Priceless' calculator. It's simple and slick, but it doesn't really tell me anything meaningful above what BeerSmith already tells me. I know he has some extra things not given by BS, such as gallon height in the kettle and hop absorption, to name a couple, but I personally have no use for this info, but that is not to say it's not valuable info for others. Obviously, Priceless found it useful or he wouldn't have included it.

Perhaps I'm not getting the whole BIABacus (and Priceless, by extension) thing due to the way I brew, and after giving it some additional thought, that could very well be it. I don't brew kits. Never have. I create recipes (or, more often, use/tweak existing recipes) and every recipe I brew is entered into BeerSmith. This is also how I keep track of what I've brewed and will be brewing. It all starts there. I'd never even think of brewing a recipe that wasn't entered into and finely tuned in BS first. Once the recipe is in and final, all of the volumes, temps, and whatever else I need that I would get from one of the aforementioned calculators has already been calculated for me. If I change the recipe, all that stuff is automatically updated. Then I brew the recipe per BS and consistently hit my volumes and gravities. In my brewing world, the only thing BS doesn't do is mash pH calcs and adjustments, so I use Brewer's Friend for those. However, I just take for granted that everybody approaches their brews this way, but I'm sure that's not the case. If you were to buy a kit, as an example, and attempt to brew it without putting it into BS or some other recipe application, you would just need numbers and that's where something like Priceless' calculator (and presumably, BIABacus) would be of enormous value.

I guess what puzzles me is that if somebody has BS at their disposal, why would they need to turn to another calculator to find volumes and temps when they're right there in BS?
 
I've looked at Priceless' calculator. It's simple and slick, but it doesn't really tell me anything meaningful above what BeerSmith already tells me. I know he has some extra things not given by BS, such as gallon height in the kettle and hop absorption, to name a couple, but I personally have no use for this info, but that is not to say it's not valuable info for others. Obviously, Priceless found it useful or he wouldn't have included it.

Perhaps I'm not getting the whole BIABacus (and Priceless, by extension) thing due to the way I brew, and after giving it some additional thought, that could very well be it. I don't brew kits. Never have. I create recipes (or, more often, use/tweak existing recipes) and every recipe I brew is entered into BeerSmith. This is also how I keep track of what I've brewed and will be brewing. It all starts there. I'd never even think of brewing a recipe that wasn't entered into and finely tuned in BS first. Once the recipe is in and final, all of the volumes, temps, and whatever else I need that I would get from one of the aforementioned calculators has already been calculated for me. If I change the recipe, all that stuff is automatically updated. Then I brew the recipe per BS and consistently hit my volumes and gravities. In my brewing world, the only thing BS doesn't do is mash pH calcs and adjustments, so I use Brewer's Friend for those. However, I just take for granted that everybody approaches their brews this way, but I'm sure that's not the case. If you were to buy a kit, as an example, and attempt to brew it without putting it into BS or some other recipe application, you would just need numbers and that's where something like Priceless' calculator (and presumably, BIABacus) would be of enormous value.

I guess what puzzles me is that if somebody has BS at their disposal, why would they need to turn to another calculator to find volumes and temps when they're right there in BS?


Definitely good points made. For that sort of process (designing or manipulating new recipes) a seperate calculator will be of little use, as what my learning process has shown is that if you're comfortable enough in beersmith and knowledgeable enough about ingredients to design a recipe then you're at the point that beersmith is probably already tweaked to your setup.

My intentions were to provide easy to use free software for the new to intermediate brewer as well as detailed and flexible variables. Every biab thing out there was severely limited in some way.

Mostly the intended audience for calculators like mine would seem to be brewers following someone else's recipes, or kits, although it seems most places if you buy a kit then usually include sufficient instructions. I am pretty much still at the point where I'm taking well rated or popular recipes from various sources (here, byo, etc) and going to the lhbs to buy and grind. Then I come home, and hit up my mash calculator while heating strike water. .

The multiple height things really just came about due to determining mash volume, then since I had already done all the work I figured it made sense to do the same for pre boil and whatnot. And that's nice to do a quick check to see if my grain absorption is what I expected. Hop absorption is often ignored, but if you've ever dry hopped extensively, it adds up.

As far as biabacus. It's a lot more work for very little gain. Maybe I'll look into it again later but I don't think it'll happen soon.
 
I must admit that you've piqued my curiosity as to what BIABiacus can do that BS can't?
Fwiw, Priceless's calculator is derived from biabacus and is far simpler to navigate IMHO.

Maybe I'm missing the advantages of Biabacus?
First off, if you have an existing tool and know how to use it well, then by all means use it. I'm not familiar with Priceless's calculator, so I can't comment on that.

What I think BIABacus offers that Beersmith doesn't is a tool that adjusts efficiency based on the gravity of the brew. I just got a copy of BS, so I'm no expert on it and I apologize if I make incorrect statements due to my lack of familiarity. My understanding is that BS requires you to set up a set of parameters such as mash efficiency for your brewhouse, regardless of whether you're brewing a mild or RIS. You experienced brewers know that you have to make many adjustments as the gravity and possibly volume of your brew change. BIABacus makes these adjustments for you. Of course, it's not perfect, but it allows adjustments to tweak to your brewhouse. BIABacus also makes calculations for evaporation rates based on your kettle dimensions, also allowing you to make adjustments, rather than just choosing a boil-off rate, which will differ for every brewer.
FWIW, I joined the biabrewer site back when I first started researching BIAB and had downloaded Biababcus back then and did find it somewhat intimidating, as many do.

Prompted by some comments in a different thread I revisited Biabacus again today and was able to set it up rather easily because I had a better idea of what was required due to my experience with dialing in Beersmith.
Unfortunately, BIABacus is somewhat intimidating at first, but once you get it dialed in for your equipment, it's pretty impressive in its accuracy over a wide variation in OGs. But you found that once you knew more and revisited it, it wasn't so bad. I'm sure this is the same argument many will make about BS once you've used it awhile and tweaked all the equipment settings.

There are certainly a lot of nice features in BS that don't exist in BIABacus, but I don't see how BS adjusts your brewing parameters for different brews. I'm open to being enlightened about this.
 
The BIABacus will go into production this year with hyperlinks in each section with help. When the BIABacus 1.0 Spreadsheet is released officially, you’ll be able to publish it on any forum. If you want to make sure you have access to original and latest files, then all you’ll need to do is become a member at BIABrewer.info

If it gets programmed it will be saleable..

When it is officially released, BIABrewer.info will post something over here, most likely in the software forum, where select members from the site will monitor and answer questions, (like cb is doing now :mug:)

MS
 
Last edited:
Using 8.21 gallons and 16.5 lbs of grain and grain temp of 70 degrees I came up with 162 degrees for the strike water.
 
I use BIABacus exclusively, and have not tried Beersmith. I also do not have a desire to learn Beersmith, but I may one day for ease of communication with other brewers. It's perfectly understandable if there is a BS user who is comfortable with the software, and has no interest to learn the BIABacus. I certainly share a mutual feeling about being content with what I learned on.

I do know that both creators (Pat/Brad) have worked together before, and are very familiar with each other.

As for calculators like the pricelessbrewing one, there certainly is a place in the world for simpler calculators. However, I find it hugely lacking for my needs.

I would like to see everyone working together to improve their terminologies with a goal to minimize ambiguity of terms across platforms. Personally, I feel like the BIABacus does the best job with terminology , and that is why I chose to use it to begin with.


Here is some information from Pat Hollingdale from BIABrewer.info about what the BIABacus (spreadsheet/pre-release) is all about.

PistolPatch said:
What the BIABacus Can't Do in Spreadsheet Form

In spreadsheet form, after many attempts at trying to get macros to work cross-platform, we have chosen to make the sheet totally macro-free. This means the the BIABacus can't do things like the following...

1. Automatically change units from metric to US or vice versa although both are displayed.
2. Separate information into different tabs. (In the spreadsheet form, all the major information is on one tab and this has actually been done purposefully.)
3. A recipe has to be transmitted as a whole spreadsheet file.
4. No tab order can be set so you usually have to click and type.
5. Drop-down lists for grains/hops etc

Gimmicks and/or Features Not in the BIABacus

1. Colour Scaling - In my view, this should not be in any brewing software. (Reasoning is #3 here.)
2. Colour Picture - This is another debatable feature as colour looks vastly different on any computer screen.
3. Hop Age Tool - Available in BeerSmith2. This looks fine to me as long as you know the AA% of the hops you are buying.
4. Water Adjustment Tools - Available in BeerSmith2 although I have not checked it over.

Most other tools I can think of are actually already and intuitively built into the BIABacus

What the BIABacus Can Do
(Also see below, What the BIABacus Does that Nothing Else Can Do.


Besides the above, pretty much anything other software can do, faster, safer and more accurately.

For a safety example, a recipe can be scaled in the BIABacus in a matter of seconds with no or as little loss of integrity to the original recipe as is possible. In another popular program, a recipe can be scaled accidentally in many way. Only one of these ways is correct (will not destroy the integrity of the original recipe) and that way is not intuitive.

An example of speed is when you copy a recipe and have a different AA% of hops than that of the original recipe. In real life, this happens on almost every recipe. The BIABacus, with it's left and right sides in Section D make the substitution adjustment immediate. In other programs, it will take a minute or two (a game of twenty questions) and a pen and paper to do the substitution correctly.

An example of accuracy is in the IBU estimate formulas. The BIABacus matches those of Glen Tinseth and work off the Volume and the Gravity of the Ambient Wort (see Clear Brewing Terminology). A lot of brewing software, including the most popular, have errors in this formula.

Concepts Developed Here and Used by Some Software (Without Acknowledgement :))

The following originated from myself or this site...

- BIAB Liquor Retained by Grain Ratios. (Beersmith has been the only program given permission to use the ratio.)
- Evaporation Rate Estimate based on kettle diameter.
- Depth and headspace measurements to determine volumes. (Depth developed by me. Headspace subsequently by stux.)

Limitations of Other Software/Sheets/Calculators

There is a proliferation of sheets that are written to only suit one scenario or are just incorrect in their concepts. For example, the author of this calculator mentions here mentions that the calculator is designed for people buying a kit (fixed amount of ingredients). So, for a start, this calculator only suits one scenario. It then asks the new user to be estimating many numbers they would have no idea on. [As for the comment in the post about "multiple heights", see above section :think:. Wow! Just noticed a link from the pricelss site that lead to an HBT article originally written by me but no acknowledgement!!! It's a copy of my first BIAB guide written back in 2006 from memory.].

Other software is generally limited by their lack of transparency, help, 'safety', flexibility, speed, and/or accuracy.

What the BIABacus Does that Nothing Else Can Do

Well, there's a lot. The BIABacus is a paradigm shift in many areas...

Speed of Learning: Even in spreadsheet form, the BIABacus is relatively fast to learn. It just requires looking at each section in order. A new user can actually scale/copy an existing recipe, in most cases, by simply changing a few fields in Section B.

Safety: The BIABacus has been carefully designed so that it is difficult to screw up. If you do screw up, a warning will be thrown at you in red. In the BIABacus main release you will be able to find info/help on that warning easily.

Intelligence / Auto Estimates: The BIABacus is intelligent software. It looks at your situation and auto-adjusts for your situation. A new brewer does not have to do anything complicated to get underway on their first few brews as the BIABacus auto-estimates, extremely well, the 'grey' areas for you. For example, the BIABacus does the reverse to all other brewing software - it intelligently auto-estimates what kettle efficiency you can expect on any recipe whilst other software asks you to tell it what kettle efficiency (or, even worse, fermentor efficiency) you should expect from all your recipes. It is simply impossible to get the same kettle efficiency on a low gravity recipe as a high gravity one.

Versatility: In fact, even though BIAB is intended to be 'full volume brewing (simultaneous mashing and sparging)', it also can handle three vessel brewing and anything in between. Section W 'Full Volume Variations' handles perfectly, many scenarios that no other brewing software attempts to approach.

Transparency/Education: The design and lay-out of the BIABAcus, even in spreadsheet form, is aimed at transparency and education. That is why we chose to put all critical information is on one tab. No other software can come anywhere close to this design. Change one thing on the first sheet of the BIABacus and you can see what it affects.

Terminology/Definitions/Clarity: Like the BIABacus design, several thousand hours of thought have been put into terminology and definitions and clarity. In my view, Clear Brewing Terminology is essential to anything that should one taken seriously. If a brewing program is written that, for example has fields called "Batch Size" and brewers subsequently publish their recipes where batch size can mean anything from 'Volume into Packaging' right up to 'Volume at Flame-Out', who is to blame? The brewer or the author of the software? In my view, it is the latter and this leads to...

Excellent Help: The main release of the BIABacus will allow you to click on the ? of any section of the BIABacus to get help. That is unique for a start. You won't get such thorough, easy to access help in any other program. The forum lay-out to come is also aimed at being fast to find great info. And, if that fails, as any reader here knows, someone will look after you really well if you have any question.

I'm sure I have missed lots so please add anything I have missed above whether it be positive or negative.

:peace:
PP
 
Sorry for another wall of text. I'll add a post and citation for BIabbrewing.info, as it was there previously but apparently got lost during the transition to the new website. However I have never looked at it, at least for more than a minute, or used the BIABacus.

I'll also post this on BIABbrewing.info for good faith.

Very thorough, good post. Not sure when the acknowledgements got dropped off as I know they were there previously, and I know other users have seen them as it was mentioned earlier that some of the variables were taken from Biabbrewing.info (I think it was hop absorption rate of dry leaf hops) and grain absoprtion rates were found on HBT posts. However, I have NEVER used or looked at the BIABacus. The original template of mine was this guys spreadsheet. http://biabbrewing.com/brew-day-prep/biab-calculators-and-software/ and I DID contact him and ask for permission to use and placed an acknowledgement as well.

As for calculator like mine, they're not only suited for kits. I was just replying to the user at that time. When you're manipulating or making a new recipe, and have beersmith/BIABacus already set up it would be silly to re-input the information into a separate piece of software to get mash information. There are thousands of newish brewers, and more especially now, that ask every single day about simple questions on mashing. This is really intended for brewers working on existing recipes. A brand new brewer with little understanding of what grains or yeast do what can go to my calculator and learn what to do in 30 seconds and know what to do for the mash. Steep learning curves and intimidating spreadsheets are not necessary in this scenario. You have your ingredients, you know what you're making, here's all the info you need. The last thing I'll probably be on the website is pre boil og and post boil og but it would needlessly complicate the inputs for my intended purposes.

Is my calculator flexible? Yes. Can it be used for traditional mashing, sure only different will be the mashing height won't apply as it's for a straight walled cylinder and not a rectangular prism. Can it be used for a newly designed recipe from another software? Sure just take the hops and grains and put them in mine, takes maybe 30 seconds. Can it be used by a brewer working on someone elses recipe? Sure, takes 30 seconds and you have all relevant mashing data. The only situation I can think of where it doesn't make sense is when a user already has BIABacus or beersmith set up correctly. These are much more robust tools. There are things in beersmith that might just is not intended to do, but there are a few things mine does do that BS does not. BIABacus can do many things mine cannot, and will not, but I don't think it accounts for expansion at mash temp?

As far as no other software attempts to approach mashing with sparge, or traditional. Both mine and Beersmith can do so, and was the original inspiration for making my calculator. I agree that there is no other BIAB calculator out there, at least as far as I'm aware, that can account for sparging. SimpleBIAB calculator attempts to do so, but does so very crudely and is not clear in any way what it does.

Moreover, the differences between my calculator and beersmith are small as far as mash outputs are concerned: thermal expansion which will be less than three percent (obtained from engineers toolbox I believe), mash heights, which do come in hand as I'm sure you know as it's fairly difficult to measure a volume of wort any other way, the link for your HBT WIKI index, not an article, was not put on the website by myself but the website designer for the calculator that I asked to help on reddit after all the javascript was completed. I wrote all the formulas by hand, looking up variables as I went such as grain absorption and hop absorption from forum posts and not from articles or calculations of the biababicus. Mash formulas are not complicated, and could be derived from first principles easily by anyone with an understanding of the process.

I provide a link to the HBT wiki index for defining BIAB, the author of it is listed at the bottom.

The hop adjustment tool is impressive, and is probably the only thing mentioned on that FAQ of sorts that I would want to use in the future. However I don't make many hop substitutions as of yet, and I can live with a slight inaccuracy of linear combinations of the AA.

Headspace and depth of water/wort was not "developed" by anyone. The volume of a straight walled cylinder has been known for thousands of years. I'll put a citation in for Archimedes and engineers toolbox.
 
BIABacus can do many things mine cannot, and will not, but I don't think it accounts for expansion at mash temp?

Yes, in Section K.

TWN = total water needed. SWN = (heated) strike water needed, the only difference between those numbers in a full volume mash is the heat expansion. The next line is total mash volume (heated).

If water is held back for a sparge (or simply added pre-boil), SWN and mash volume will also reflect that.
 
Yes, in Section K.

TWN = total water needed. SWN = (heated) strike water needed, the only difference between those numbers in a full volume mash is the heat expansion. The next line is total mash volume (heated).

If water is held back for a sparge (or simply added pre-boil), SWN and mash volume will also reflect that.

Good to know, I was not aware it accounted for that.

Tried to post on your thread on biabrewer but I dont have permission to post in the old hands forum. I Pm'd pistolpatch to notify him I posted on here.
 
Good to know, I was not aware it accounted for that.

Tried to post on your thread on biabrewer but I dont have permission to post in the old hands forum. I Pm'd pistolpatch to notify him I posted on here.

Cool, yeah ... we do have a First Post thread, and that's generally what the mods use to approve new members. Helps us with spammers. Your pm will certainly suffice, though.
 
You should be approved, PP is likely sleeping right now .. so I went ahead and asked a mod to look into it.
 
More from Pat.

PistolPatch said:
Hey there priceless :peace:,

There actually won't be a hop 'IBU' adjustment formula. As you said above, any existing formulas are over-simplifications that will usually lead into poor territory. Basically, there is little to no experimentation done on flavour and aroma hops. Have a read of this post and pay particular attention to the wisdom offered by Alex Tronsky towards the end of that post. Some things just can't be quantified at this stage BUT...

The BIABacus does an excellent job of concisely saying, "To get this beer, I used this or that type of chiller and employed it in the following manner." Nothing else addresses chillers used or when employed and this is critical information. (Also read Chilling Myths - Asking the right questions)

The HBT Thread

Rick ended up copying my long post #11 above to the HBT thread and in your reply, you wrote, "I'll also post this on BIABbrewing.info for good faith," but I can't find your reply posted. We probably don't need to re-post your reply here as I can go through it and respond to anytihnng that needs responding to. Let me have a crack :)...

1. Remember, there is no such site as BIABreweing.info :p. Please make sure credits go to BIABrewer.info ;).

2. Liquor to grain absorption rates should match the BIABacus as that rate is based one of the 'pioneer' threads where figures were collected from many brewers and averaged out. Any other default is not based on a collection of data.

3. Your Calculator assumes the brewer has already bought the ingredients (or a kit). I know you have only been brewing for a short period and. like many others, will have been lead to believe that if you buy the same weight of ingredients as another brewer, you will get the same results whereas that is not correct. For example, your calculator assumes that you will have the same kettle efficiency as the original brewer which isn't correct. The BIABacus approaches things from a different angle and says, "To duplicate this person's brew, this is what you need to buy."

4. The BIABacus is an intimidating spreadsheet at first glance but it isn't that hard if worked through slowly for twenty minutes. There are virtually no decisions a new brewer has to make whereas in all other software, a lot of complicated decisions have to be made (and terminology grasped) that a new brewer has no idea on (kettle efficiency, fermentor efficiency, evap rate for example). The BIABacus auto-estimates these. When officially released will still be an intimidating spreadsheet at first glance but the clear terminology and ? help will still make it faster to grasp than anything else out there.

5. The intimidation factor would also, of course, become irrelevant if the interface was programmed. This has been already thought through in detail. For now though, spreadsheet it is :smoke:.

6. No other software does account correctly for sparging and dilutions. In a simplistic manner some of them do, but none of them look at the effects on kettle efficiency and how this subsequently affects many sub-factors. As you mentioned, most brewing formulas are black and white. The BIABacus however addresses the dynamic nature of a batch. For example, the more dilutions, the lower kettle efficiency. As a matter of interest, even without worrying about the effect on kettle efficiency, when we I was assisting in beta testing BeerSmith2, I was unable to develop a profile that could handle what we called Maxi-BIAB back then. (Now called Full Volume Variations for clarity.)

7. We addressed the Hop Adjustment Tool above (there isn't one ;)).

8. As for headspace and depth etc not being developed by anyone besides Archimedes, there are several things here...

a) No one knows who developed the volume of a cylinder but it wasn't Archimedes :).
b) Applying known things in a practical way may be obvious in hindsight but no one else has used this formula in brewing.
c) No other program also allows for odd shaped vessels such as kegs.
d) No one else has bothered to collect and devise an evaporation formula based on the surface area of the vessel.
e) No one else uses this maths to throw up warnings based on a complex array of inter-relationships.

So, I think this applying of some basic maths (and physics) shouldn't be too easily sneezed at. Simple though they might seem in hindsight, they have taken a long time to develop, apply and capitalise on.

...

Okey dokey, I think that is enough for now.

Can you or Rick copy my reply above to the HBT thread so it all balances?

Thank ye :salute:,
PP
 
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