BIAB boiling & efficiency

[momobono]

I'm about to brew my first all-grain, BIAB beer. It's a extract-to-grain converted recipe from a popular IPA I made last year around this time, so I know the recipe kicks big homebrew butt. I have two questions:

1) I know because of my brew method of choice I'm looking at low efficiency. I bought enough grain for a 5gal batch at 80% efficiency (my basic partial-mash estimation I've always used). Is it worth brewing my whole 5 gallon all-grain batch with this amount of grain, or should I shrink the batch size to 3.5-4 gal to offset this efficiency difference?

2) I don't have a brewpot over 5 gallons at this time (remember, I'm the partial mash convert from two seconds ago?) but I'm excited to do a full-wort boil to increase hop utilizations, esp. in the case of this IPA. Can I split the full wort between two pots as long as I evenly split the ingredients as well?

Thanks for the advice. Viva homebrew!

 

[meschaefer]

Shooting for 80% efficiency may be a bit optimistic, especially for your first go at it. I tend to hit about 70% efficiency when I am brewing BIAB but everybody's numbers are going to be different. 80% may be achievable but I would would aim for between 65 - 70 % the first time and scale accordingly.

In theory I don't see any reason you can't split the boil. The problem is that with BIAB you usually mash with your full boil volume. If you don't have room for a full boil your not going to have enough room to mash Since I recommend scaling your recipe above you may find that you have the room you need with something close to a 3 gallon batch size.

 

[wilserbrewer]

You can certainly reduce your batch to 4 gallons w/ the grains you have. Lots of people do a split boil simply by halving the ingredients in two pots. For simplicity, I would BIAB mash in the 5 gal, then batch/dunk sparge to collect about 5 gallons total. Begin boiling 4+ of the five gallons in the 5 gallon pot, and top up during the boil w/ the reserved runnings to produce say 4 1/4 gallons finished batch. W/ a fine grind your efficiency may not be that low.

 

[spazzy]

I'm new to all grain BIAB as well. My last 3 batches have gotten around 70-72% efficiency. Like you I also have a 5 gallon pot (from my extract brewing days) I usually shoot for a 3 gallon batch. (and smaller batches mean I can brew more often = more fun)

 

[Psych]

I solely BIAB and achieve 80% minimum each and every time. Last session was 91% which is my all time high. A good crush goes a LONG ways.

Remember that there's no law saying you can't do a 3-4 gallon BIAB with your full ingredients list then top up with cold water after the boil. Adjust your hops up a tiny bit but otherwise business as usual.

Just use as much water in the mash as you possibly can fit, the thinner the better I've found. A thicker BIAB mash does lower efficiency.

 

[ayoungrad]

I solely BIAB and achieve 80% minimum each and every time. Last session was 91% which is my all time high. A good crush goes a LONG ways.

Remember that there's no law saying you can't do a 3-4 gallon BIAB with your full ingredients list then top up with cold water after the boil. Adjust your hops up a tiny bit but otherwise business as usual.

Just use as much water in the mash as you possibly can fit, the thinner the better I've found. A thicker BIAB mash does lower efficiency.

Are you doing a full volume mash? Or do you also mash-out? Or sparge?

What is your typical mash ratio?

What water do you use? Any additives (5.2, acidulated malt, CaCl, gypsum)?

Is your grain store crushed or at home? Double crush?

How long do you mash and at what typical temp range?

How do you check efficiency? Pre boil? Post boil? Pre pitching?

Sorry for all the questions. I had 85-95% extract efficiency for a while and have had that significantly drop and I'm attempting to figure out why...

 

[momobono]

Just use as much water in the mash as you possibly can fit, the thinner the better I've found. A thicker BIAB mash does lower efficiency.

I'm starting my mash with an R of 1.0qt/lb right now, leaving room for possibly adding more water to maintain temperature - I don't have an igloo mashtun. Does this sound alright? (I was planning on using the towels-wrapped-around-the-bottling-bucket method. I'll invest soon enough, but I'm impatient.)

I have a decent crush, but nothing too fine. I was concerned about getting doughballs.

 

[momobono]

Are you doing a full volume mash? Or do you also mash-out? Or sparge?
No sparge (I dunk), and my mash volume will be as much as I can fit up to full volume (5gal), otherwise I'll top with water before checking efficiency/boiling.

What is your typical mash ratio?
Aiming for 1.5qt/lb.

What water do you use? Any additives (5.2, acidulated malt, CaCl, gypsum)?
I'll use gypsum to adjust my municipal tap water.

Is your grain store crushed or at home? Double crush?
LHBS crushed, single pass.

How long do you mash and at what typical temp range?
This recipe is a single-step infusion at 163.

How do you check efficiency? Pre boil? Post boil? Pre pitching?
I'll take tons of measurements and figure it all out later.

 

[ayoungrad]

Are you doing a full volume mash? Or do you also mash-out? Or sparge?
No sparge (I dunk), and my mash volume will be as much as I can fit up to full volume (5gal), otherwise I'll top with water before checking efficiency/boiling.

What is your typical mash ratio?
Aiming for 1.5qt/lb.

What water do you use? Any additives (5.2, acidulated malt, CaCl, gypsum)?
I'll use gypsum to adjust my municipal tap water.

Is your grain store crushed or at home? Double crush?
LHBS crushed, single pass.

How long do you mash and at what typical temp range?
This recipe is a single-step infusion at 163.

How do you check efficiency? Pre boil? Post boil? Pre pitching?
I'll take tons of measurements and figure it all out later.

Thanks.

Based on your location, I would guess your LHBS is Modern? That's were I go if I don't order online. I double crushed there the other day and gained MAYBE 5-6%.

I'm changing so many things at once now that's it's hard to figure out where my low efficiencies are coming from (50-56%). I was expecting a drop because I used to double batch sparge and now I'm doughing-in at full volume but this is a little lower than I'd like.

Thanks again for the responses.

OP, sorry for the slightly off-topic posts.

 

[pvtschultz]

I double crush grains at the LHS, mash with full volume, and get 75% conversion efficiency. I used to do a thicker mash due to pot size constraints and got 70% efficiency. Using a thicker mash with dunk sparge I get 85%.

 

[Psych]

Are you doing a full volume mash? Or do you also mash-out? Or sparge?

What is your typical mash ratio?

I mash typically 11-12lbs of grain in 7g of water, unsure of the ratio but probably 1:2 or so, lb/qt?

What water do you use? Any additives (5.2, acidulated malt, CaCl, gypsum)?

Tap water, unfiltered, no additions. Split off my washing machine tap but using an RV hose (food safe)

Is your grain store crushed or at home? Double crush?

Barley Crusher, at home while water is heating to strike temp. Single crush, default gap (I've never checked it though), using a cordless drill to grind at a fairly fast speed.

How long do you mash and at what typical temp range?

Lately I've been mashing 30-40 minutes, but my typical is still probably a regular 60 minute single infusion mash, and I typically go between 148 and 155, anywhere in there depending on the level of fermentation/sweetness/dryness I want. Haven't seen a change in efficiency from the mash temp.

How do you check efficiency? Pre boil? Post boil? Pre pitching?

I check pre-boil, chilled in the freezer and then temp adjusted via online tools measuring volume using my 'calibrated' mash paddle (marker points for each gallon as I've measured it initially in this pot), then check pre-pitch with my similarly measured and marked fermentation buckets.

Sorry for all the questions. I had 85-95% extract efficiency for a while and have had that significantly drop and I'm attempting to figure out why...

Changing to a Barley Crusher (or probably any similar mill) moved me from fluctuating between 55% and 75%, to a solid 80% average and sometimes I go higher if my mash is thinner.

My last batch was a 9.5lb grainbill with 6.8 gallons of water, and I hit 93% pre-boil or something, 91% final.

I sometimes do a mashout but don't feel it offers much. I dunk the bag in the kettle a few times and let it drain for 5-10 seconds between dunks, when I'm pulling it out.

 

[Psych]

How long do you mash and at what typical temp range?
This recipe is a single-step infusion at 163.

163 is CRAZY high temp, is that a typo? It probably wouldn't affect your overall efficiency, and may actually help it as it'll really blow through it fast, but your final gravity would be pretty high from unfermentables at that temp.

I once accidentally did a batch at 165 and wound up with a FG of 1.030 or something, was pretty...special.

 

[momobono]

I see what you're saying. I was going off of one reference given to me by my LBS (Modern, yes) to have my single-step at 163. Maybe they were accounting for the fact that I was going to lose plenty of heat... no, that's just giving them the benefit of the doubt. Better to trust John Palmer... as always.