I need help figuring out what I did wrong. So I'm fairly sure it's ruined already but here goes. I made a berliner with a sour Mash. I mashed at 150 for 60 min and let it drop to 90 on its own over 26 hours. I covered the grain with plastic wrap and wrapped the Mash tun. The next day I Sparge and transfered to my boil pot. Builded for 45 min and hopped with an oz of hops at 5 min left for a total of 6 ibus. Ended up coming it at 1.035. Tasted slightly tart. PH was 4. I threw a packet of us05 in it. This was a week ago. Last night I tried it and it tasted and Smelled like puke. What did I do wrong?
Berliner Weiss help
- Thread starter Rys06Tbss
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Groo
Well-Known Member
From my experience the puke smell comes from exposure to oxygen during the sour mash. I've heard of some people having success with the plastic wrap but others not so much.
Also, mine take an average of 48 hours of sour mashing at 110 F to get pretty sour. I usually go 36 for a highly tart version.
Also, mine take an average of 48 hours of sour mashing at 110 F to get pretty sour. I usually go 36 for a highly tart version.
OP
OP
Rys06Tbss
Well-Known Member
I also wrapped the top of my keggle Mash tun with plastic wrap as well. I'm guessing that didn't help my issues. I was just trying to keep the critters out. What's weird is this tasted good post boil. I'm hoping once it's totally done that it'll be better but I'm not to optimistic at this point in time. Also how do you keep your temps that warm for that long? I'm guessing you use a cooler Mash tun?
lburkholder
Member
I have had vinegar develop a puke taste. I think the offending compound is butyric acid. I do not know if it is from an ingredient or from a bad bug.
Here's a clue, though: it happened when I was trying to make vinegar from a batch of pilsner that tasted like wet newspapers, which someone told me is from oxidation of the hot wort. Maybe that's what happened to you: hot wort oxidation + souring fermentation = puke taste?
I think a cooler would be the way to go for this type of thing, because you can seal out the air better and create a better environment for the bugs you want.
Here's a clue, though: it happened when I was trying to make vinegar from a batch of pilsner that tasted like wet newspapers, which someone told me is from oxidation of the hot wort. Maybe that's what happened to you: hot wort oxidation + souring fermentation = puke taste?
I think a cooler would be the way to go for this type of thing, because you can seal out the air better and create a better environment for the bugs you want.
OP
OP
Rys06Tbss
Well-Known Member
This batch has been dumped a few weeks ago. I think I messed up else where too. I didn't drop the temps right away from 150 I just wrapped it and let it fall on its own. That might had something to do with off flavors too. It's a bit to cold to try this experiment again now.
vagabondat02
Well-Known Member
The butyric acid is produced by bugs on the grain, and a problem that I struggled with for a while. There's a thread somewhere in this section where someone with a microbiology background weighed in on how to stop it. Preventing oxygen exposure isn't nearly as important as maintaining temperature! I started sour worting in a bucket with an airlock, wrapped in a heating blanket at a steady 110f and haven't had a trace of butyric in three straight batches. I'm not purging, using plastic wrap, boiling, or pasteurizing, and I'm having zero issues and getting twice as sour as the old commercial cultures. I need to get my hands on some of the new lacto cultures to try out, but a hand full of uncrushed base malt is yielding some pretty great results!
Do you know what the threshold temperature is preventing the butyric acid production? I use pure lacto and maintain temps at 95 to 100F with a heating blanket. I'd like to try the grain method, but can't get my temps up to 110 F right now.
vagabondat02
Well-Known Member
I want to say it was right around 90-95F. I'm looking for that thread now, there was a lot of useful information in it.
vagabondat02
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Thanks for finding this.
Got to figure out how to get a few more degrees out of my heating blanket. Maybe just putting everything in a box would do it. Might try it out with water and see what temp I can maintain before using some wort.
vagabondat02
Well-Known Member
If you have a cooler style mash tun, you could probably rig it to help insulate. Wrap the bucket in the blanket, put it in the cooler...
