Belgian bottles necessary? Really?

[mistercameron]

I am interested in brewing some common styles of Belgian beers. while looking at style carbonation tables, it looks like most get carbed to the same levels as any other ale - around 2.5 vols, give or take.

Besides looking cool with a cork and cage, why bother with the hassle of special bottles when standard bottles should be fine? ... Or are those carbing tables generally off? I've had fizzy Belgians before, but I'm not good at knowing what a certain carb level would be like.

 

[Calder]

Standard bottles are fine up to about 3 vols of CO2.

Lambic/Gauze/Brett beers can go above that and need higher pressure capable bottles. The problem with these beers is that they are never really finished, so over a long storage period, they can create much higher pressure.

 

[mistercameron]

Standard bottles are fine up to about 3 vols of CO2.

Lambic/Gauze/Brett beers can go above that and need higher pressure capable bottles. The problem with these beers is that they are never really finished, so over a long storage period, they can create much higher pressure.

Any problems with some of the higher ABV beers gaining pressure from sitting around so long? Say for example, a dark strong? I would think that once it hits FG it stays there and it's time to bottle it up. It would be nice to not have to invest in additional equipment if I don't have do, but nobody wants a bottle bomb on their hands

 

[Hammy71]

I've done a Chimay Blue and several Hefeweizen beers in regular glass bottles. All pushing the 3 volume limits. No problems. I did keep them in a plastic tub though....just in case.

 

[shoreman]

Not necessary but nice to have - if you know a bar that sells duvel in the small bottles ask the if you can buy the emptys i have 2 cases of these and the glass is thick and can take the pressur of any belgian beer - beer fests are a good place too justvask the organizer or if you know anyone that is a vendor

 

[mistercameron]

Not necessary but nice to have - if you know a bar that sells duvel in the small bottles ask the if you can buy the emptys i have 2 cases of these and the glass is thick and can take the pressur of any belgian beer - beer fests are a good place too justvask the organizer or if you know anyone that is a vendor

Do they take standard cap? I know my wing capper can take a different bell if need be.

Now I just need to find a place serving duvel from the bottle

 

[TomRep]

They do fit a standard cap. Just used a couple myself the other day.

 

[bronzdragon]

I've brewed Belgians, specifically Dubbels, for a long time. Love em. Once in awhile I'll make a special brew, like a big Dubbel or something and I know it's going to spend awhile in the bottle. I use the Belgian bottles and do the finishing ferment in the bottle for carbonation.

But for standard brews that will not spend a long time in the bottle, I've used regular beer bottles fine. I usually used the larger bottles though.

With that said, if you do want to use Belgian bottles, make sure you have a floor corker. The hand corkers won't get the job done.

cheers

~rc~

 

[mistercameron]

Once in awhile I'll make a special brew, like a big Dubbel or something and I know it's going to spend awhile in the bottle. I use the Belgian bottles and do the finishing ferment in the bottle

are you bottling at FG, then adding the suggested amount of priming sugar? I've noticed that some commercial varieties are much more carbonated than I would expect for the suggested 2 volumes for the style.

Thanks for the heads up. I was tempted to look towards the swing arm corker, as neither I nor SWMBO are excited about the cost of higher end corkers. Given your suggestion I'm going to see if any LHBS carry them for rentals.

 

[JuanMoore]

I've noticed that some commercial varieties are much more carbonated than I would expect for the suggested 2 volumes for the style.

Commercial varieties of what style exactly? There are many Belgian styles, and the suggested carb levels for each of them range from 2.0 vol to 4.5 vol depending on the style and which suggested carb level chart you're looking at. I'm pretty sure all trappist ales are carbed to over 3.0 vol, with some above 4.0.

Bottom line is that the carb level is up to you, the suggested levels are just that, a suggestion. If you like the highly carbonated ones you've had commercially, then shoot for a high carb level and use thicker bottles. If not, carb to a more moderate level and don't worry about the bottles.

If you're unsure of what carb level in vol corresponds to what level of fizziness in your mouth, find or think of a few commercial beers that have the fizziness you want, and then use google-fu to figure out what that carb level is in vol.

Duvel for example is carbed to 4.25 vol, Orval is at 5.0 vol, and I think Leffe blonde is about 3.0 vol.

 

[mistercameron]

Commercial varieties of what style exactly? There are many Belgian styles, and the suggested carb levels for each of them range from 2.0 vol to 4.5 vol depending on the style and which suggested carb level chart you're looking at. I'm pretty sure all trappist ales are carbed to over 3.0 vol, with some above 4.0.

Bottom line is that the carb level is up to you, the suggested levels are just that, a suggestion. If you like the highly carbonated ones you've had commercially, then shoot for a high carb level and use thicker bottles. If not, carb to a more moderate level and don't worry about the bottles.

If you're unsure of what carb level in vol corresponds to what level of fizziness in your mouth, find or think of a few commercial beers that have the fizziness you want, and then use google-fu to figure out what that carb level is in vol.

Duvel for example is carbed to 4.25 vol, Orval is at 5.0 vol, and I think Leffe blonde is about 3.0 vol.

For me, I'm generally interested in starting with the common varieties. I have a blonde carbinh to about 2.25 vols. after that I'm thinking about a dubbed or quad, then a tripel/golden strong.

 

[bronzdragon]

I would agree with the above statements. If you are going with a standard amount of carbonation, regular bottles would be fine. But if you want to up the carb and have a really fizzy lighter style, then I'd use the thicker glass just to be careful.

I keep mine at standard carbonation about 2.0 or so. I don't usually worry too much about it. The bigger beers end up having a little residual sugars, and I typically bottle with 3/4 cup of carmelized syrup (I make my own candi sugar) and then just a few grains of champagne yeast in each big bottle.

These are usually beers in the 9-10% range.

~rc~

 

[mistercameron]

Now several months later, I have a tripel that's been fermenting for a month. It's one point higher than the target FG, but it's been this way for about a week. Even between the last readings the yeast have started to noticeably settle out and the hot alcohols have mellowed a bit. I stopped by the LHBS to pick up a couple cases of 16oz belgian bottles that take standard crown caps and was informed it's unnecessary. The bottles themselves seemed slightly thicker than standard bottles, but the guys working the counter thought it wasn't worth the price because standard craft brew bottles should be fine. Reason: the caps will blow before the bottles blow at that high carbonation, and then the standard bottles should take the carbonation just fine. And on top of that they suggested I not carb over 3.5-3.7 vols (fine).

I think I will probably do well with 3.5-ish vols and regular bottles (just not the cheap BMC types) and save my money to do the real belgian bottles w/ a corker at another time, especially the more I do these higher ABV beers. Doesn't sound too crazy, does it?

 

[Calder]

Reason: the caps will blow before the bottles blow at that high carbonation, and then the standard bottles should take the carbonation just fine.

????? The bottles will shatter first.

I've had a couple of bottles go on me, but never a cap.

 

[beerloaf]

I have about 35 Coke bottles that I use and thicker Belgian bottles from a case of Chimay. I regurlarly carbonate in them around 3.5 without issues. Coke bottles are a lot thicker than regular beer bottles.

beerloaf

 

[mistercameron]

????? The bottles will shatter first.

I've had a couple of bottles go on me, but never a cap.

Any idea how much those were carbed at?

 

[Calder]

Any idea how much those were carbed at?

Standard bottles are only considered safe for about 3 volumes of CO2. In general they will take more, but there is no guarantee and the weaker ones will fail if you push this limit.

I have also heard (which seems reasonable), that glass will also fail in fatigue. That is, it will eventually fail due to repeated cycles of pressure, and some people actually count the number of times they use bottles and replace them after about 5 times. I don't do this, but if they do fatigue, the higher pressures you subject them to, the quicker they will fail (maybe just a couple of cycles at 4 volumes of CO2).

That said, I have only had 1 bottle fail on me since I re-started brewing 3 years ago. It was a 22 oz bomber. Bottled at 1.016 with 3 volumes of CO2. When I checked the gravity of one of the other bottles (which I chilled and quickly consumed) I was surprised at how low it had gone. I can't remember what it was now, but I think it was at least 1.010, making the volumes of CO2 in the bottles around 8. Most of the bottles were fine, only 1 failed.