Beer Smith or Bru'n Water?

[Redpappy]

I have just started doing AG and have ran into a water/ph problem. So I plan on sending in a sample of my water to Ward Labs. I am already using Beer Smith. But I am wondering on what other peoples opinion is on which should be used for water Beer Smith or Bru'n Water. Thanks in advanced to any that respond

 

[brewbama]

I believe BeerSmith is fine for minerals but I had a bad experience with it’s Lactic Acid recommendation. Bru’n water recommended half the Lactic Acid BeerSmith did for the same beer.

 

[enkamania]

I believe BeerSmith is fine for minerals but I had a bad experience with it’s Lactic Acid recommendation. Bru’n water recommended half the Lactic Acid BeerSmith did for the same beer.

That's been my experience as well.

 

[Oginme]

I agree with the two previous responses on the acid/acidulated malt recommendations in BeerSmith being about 5x+ too high. I've used both programs and, although the addition of water profile with associated mineral salts to the recipe is clunky in BeerSmith, it does work. It is a bit better in BS3, being right in the recipe and more responsive to last minute changes in grain bill or target mineral/ion concentrations.

 

[Rev2010]

I personally prefer Brewer's Friend for water calc.


Rev.

 

[mpmccann]

I have used all of the above. I eventually ended up with BS2 and Bru'n water. I really hop I can do it all with BS3 when I get my hands on it this month.

 

[Redpappy]

I have used all of the above. I eventually ended up with BS2 and Bru'n water. I really hop I can do it all with BS3 when I get my hands on it this month.

After you played with BS3, if you don’t mind, start a thread to throw in your 2 cents about it. I just bought BS2 2 months ago ( I think), but if there is a big improvement I will fork out the dough for BS3.

 

[kh54s10]

After you played with BS3, if you don’t mind, start a thread to throw in your 2 cents about it. I just bought BS2 2 months ago ( I think), but if there is a big improvement I will fork out the dough for BS3.

Look at Beersmith.com. I believe you can upgrade for litttle or nothing.

 

[Nagorg]

Bru'n Water over BS2 for sure. I'll check out the improvements in BS3 but may keep using Bru'n water anyway.. I've had good experiences with it!

 

[Derp]

Beersmith 3 is now available and I just installed it. I threw together a recipe in Beersmith, matched it to a water profile, and then compared it to Bru'n Water. They both agreed almost perfectly on the final water composition, and while Beersmith predicted a 5.4 pH, Bru'n Water predicted 5.38. I think I can live with that.

It's nice to have all of the water salts listed in the Beersmith recipe, but there's one glaring problem for me: calcium chloride. It tends to absorb water and throw the weight off, so I do as Bru'n Water suggests and mix it up in a large bottle of distilled water. Bru'n Water allows me to choose liquid CaCl and I can enter a custom strength of the solution. Beersmith doesn't seem to have that option. Beersmith suggested that I add 1.02 grams of (hypothetically) pure/dry CaCl, while Bru'n Water says that I need 5.01 grams of my homemade solution. I'll have to continue referring to Bru'n Water for the actual measurement unless/until Beersmith allows for liquid CaCl at an adjustable strength.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Beersmith 3 is now available and I just installed it. I threw together a recipe in Beersmith, matched it to a water profile, and then compared it to Bru'n Water. They both agreed almost perfectly on the final water composition, and while Beersmith predicted a 5.4 pH, Bru'n Water predicted 5.38. I think I can live with that.

It's nice to have all of the water salts listed in the Beersmith recipe, but there's one glaring problem for me: calcium chloride. It tends to absorb water and throw the weight off, so I do as Bru'n Water suggests and mix it up in a large bottle of distilled water. Bru'n Water allows me to choose liquid CaCl and I can enter a custom strength of the solution. Beersmith doesn't seem to have that option. Beersmith suggested that I add 1.02 grams of (hypothetically) pure/dry CaCl, while Bru'n Water says that I need 5.01 grams of my homemade solution. I'll have to continue referring to Bru'n Water for the actual measurement unless/until Beersmith allows for liquid CaCl at an adjustable strength.

I just built a water profile in BS3 and used the formulas in the Science sub-forum to calc how much liquid solution to use based on weight and then simply changed my recipe from “grams” to “ml” with the appropriate amount.

 

[mpmccann]

Beersmith 3 is now available and I just installed it. I threw together a recipe in Beersmith, matched it to a water profile, and then compared it to Bru'n Water. They both agreed almost perfectly on the final water composition, and while Beersmith predicted a 5.4 pH, Bru'n Water predicted 5.38. I think I can live with that.

It's nice to have all of the water salts listed in the Beersmith recipe, but there's one glaring problem for me: calcium chloride. It tends to absorb water and throw the weight off, so I do as Bru'n Water suggests and mix it up in a large bottle of distilled water. Bru'n Water allows me to choose liquid CaCl and I can enter a custom strength of the solution. Beersmith doesn't seem to have that option. Beersmith suggested that I add 1.02 grams of (hypothetically) pure/dry CaCl, while Bru'n Water says that I need 5.01 grams of my homemade solution. I'll have to continue referring to Bru'n Water for the actual measurement unless/until Beersmith allows for liquid CaCl at an adjustable strength.

I am very interested in this mixed CaCl solution. Can you provide some details or a link to where I can find out more about it. So are you pre-mixing a large amount of this to keep on hand? How do you calculate amounts? I assume this helps keeps the CaCl measurements consistent.

 

[Nagorg]

I am very interested in this mixed CaCl solution. Can you provide some details or a link to where I can find out more about it. So are you pre-mixing a large amount of this to keep on hand? How do you calculate amounts? I assume this helps keeps the CaCl measurements consistent.

The referenced information is in the BrunWater "Instructions" tab. It doesnt give you direct info on proportions for making your own liquid CaCl2 but it does describe how to measure its strength so that you can plug that number in when using it.

"Working with Calcium Chloride: Calcium chloride can easily absorb moisture from the air and alter the density of the solid calcium chloride mineral. In addition, calcium chloride is commonly available in anhydrous (no water) and dihydrate (2 water molecule) forms. The program includes settings to select either anhydrous or dihydrate solid forms of this mineral. Since the mineral can easily pick up moisture and alter its density, which subsequently changes how much calcium chloride is actually added to the water, an alternative is to use a calcium chloride solution. Calcium chloride solution strength is typically consistent as long as it is stored in an air-tight container.


Click next to the "What form of CaCl2?" cell and a selection box with Anhydrous, Dihydrate, and Liquid are displayed. Select the appropriate form being used in the brewery.


The percentage strength of the calcium chloride solution must be entered when "Liquid" is selected. If the liquid calcium chloride is a commercial solution, enter the % strength quoted for the solution in the Liquid CaCl2 Strength? cell. For example, enter 10 for a 10 percent solution, not 0.10. If the liquid is prepared in the brewery from solid calcium chloride and distilled water, the strength of the solution can be assessed by measuring its specific gravity. Use either a hydrometer or measure the mass of a precise volume of the solution to determine the solution's specific gravity. For example, 120 gram mass measured for a volume of 100 mL indicates a specific gravity of 1.200 (=120g/100mL). Enter that specific gravity value into the CaCl2 Solution Strength calculator adjacent to the "Solution S.G." cell. The strength calculator converts the specific gravity measurement into the solution's (% w/w) strength. Enter the % w/w Strength result in the Liquid CaCl2 Strength? cell."

 

[mpmccann]

Okay thanks for that info. I'll look into that when I get some time.

 

[trav77]

Just another pile-on to say that in my experience BrunWater is more accurate than BS2 for acid additions. I routinely hit my target pH with BrunWater's calcs, but BS2 wants me to add considerably more acid malt or lactic acid to hit the same pH.

Definitely interested in checking out BS3 to see if it has improved. It would certainly be nice to have it all in one place...

 

[Redpappy]

Since I’m still trying to work on my consistency’s, I think I will be letting everyone else try it out first. I’ve downloaded BrunWater, just waiting for my water tests to come back. Then the big debate of either brewing a Boston ale clone or the cariabian slobber from NB, in 3 weeks.

Thanks for all the help with this. It is much appreciated.

 

[Nagorg]

I found a good video on making liquid CaCl2...

 

[Danny2fresh]

I believe BeerSmith is fine for minerals but I had a bad experience with it’s Lactic Acid recommendation. Bru’n water recommended half the Lactic Acid BeerSmith did for the same beer.

Same. Beersmith 3 and brunwater both of estimated my ph the same and were spot on for the salt additions however beersmith wanted 7ml of 88% lactic where brunwater only showed 3ml.

Ive been using beersmith for salt and all other additions then transferring everything over to brunwater to get the lactic acid addition.

 

[Redpappy]

Has anyone tried to use the brunwater in Numbers? I don5bhave access to excel, and so far it seems to b3 missing som3 info when I try to use it

 

[mabrungard]

Users that don't have Excel should consider installing LibreOffice on their computer. Its a freeware program that includes a spreadsheet that operates Bru'n Water pretty well.

 

[Redpappy]

Users that don't have Excel should consider installing LibreOffice on their computer. Its a freeware program that includes a spreadsheet that operates Bru'n Water pretty well.

Thanks. I just DL it and played around with it for a few. Everything seems to be calculating. Now I just need to figure out what I am actually doing. So much research.