Beer has garden hose taste...
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Pommy
Well-Known Member
if you dont like ultra carbonated garden hose tasting beers I would have to say yes. When you say garden hose taste do you mean you think you picked up flavour from a garden hose or you think you may have an infection?
waitescott
New Member
What temperature did you ferment at? I got a plastic/rubber feel from too high temps dieting active fermentation.
JuanMoore
Getting the banned back together
Most likely phenols, which have several possible causes. If you used any chlorinated water or used bleach to sanitize and didn't rinse well enough it could have reacted with the yeast to form chlorophenols. It could also be an infection from a wild yeast. If you're kegging, it could also be from the vinyl beer line.
Since it's also ultra carbonated, my bet is on a wild yeast infection, but without more info it's really hard to say.
Since it's also ultra carbonated, my bet is on a wild yeast infection, but without more info it's really hard to say.
Thanks everyone.
I def did not use a water hose for anything other than to attach to the copper wort chiller. Temps! I did have this batch's primary on the hotter end accidentally, but when I noticed the temp change, I moved it to an air controlled room. An issue with this brew was that I only had 3 gallons of liquid in a 5 gallon bucket (food grade, bubbler air lock). That's 2 gallons of head space so I wonder if that had anything to do with it.
I split the batch into two buckets so I could dry hop one of the batches, but that other bucket was bottled a week after so if that batch has a similar quality, I think Ill have an idea where things went wrong. Ill open one early on Friday.
Water was obtained from an RO machine for 25c a gal at the local super.
Is this something that might get better with time/conditioning?
I def did not use a water hose for anything other than to attach to the copper wort chiller. Temps! I did have this batch's primary on the hotter end accidentally, but when I noticed the temp change, I moved it to an air controlled room. An issue with this brew was that I only had 3 gallons of liquid in a 5 gallon bucket (food grade, bubbler air lock). That's 2 gallons of head space so I wonder if that had anything to do with it.
I split the batch into two buckets so I could dry hop one of the batches, but that other bucket was bottled a week after so if that batch has a similar quality, I think Ill have an idea where things went wrong. Ill open one early on Friday.
Water was obtained from an RO machine for 25c a gal at the local super.
Is this something that might get better with time/conditioning?
No, probably not. It sounds like chlorophenols, which won't age out.
the problem with using strait RO water is that it lacks the normal minerals that yeast need to be healthy, unless you specifically add those necessary minerals back into the RO water before brewing with it. unhealthy yeast can cause flavors such as this. i wouldnt use that water next time, or be sure to add minerals and yeast nutrients, and see if the problem goes away.
OneHoppyGuy
Well-Known Member
I would say this was posted in the wrong place but then I wouldn't have learned all this stuff. Wow! Beer is amazing chemistry.
beerkrump
Well-Known Member
If you use too high a concentration of iodine or leave a lot of the sanitizing agent in with your brew, you can get iodophenols. (Iodine is a halogen like chlorine.) These are not common and are not a problem when iodophor is used properly.
From most of what I hear and know about chloro- and iodophenols is that they don't get better, they get worse. However, (and I don't know where this is coming from
) I have in the back of my head that freezing the beer may help.
Are you serving it out of a bottle or a keg?
If its ultra carbonated unintentionally, that would be an indicator of a wild yeast contamination. As well some of the phenolic compounds they produce can have a plastic/rubbery flavor.
Some times too, old serving lines can leach out funky rubber flavors too, if this was a keged beer.
If its ultra carbonated unintentionally, that would be an indicator of a wild yeast contamination. As well some of the phenolic compounds they produce can have a plastic/rubbery flavor.
Some times too, old serving lines can leach out funky rubber flavors too, if this was a keged beer.
Bsquared said:
Bottle. I love carbonation, it's just a bit much for a weeks worth. It has an incredible head even with a careful pour.
All this talk of wild yeast, where in my process would this have happened???
Actually, RO water is normally preferred for brewing and even with AG brewing it's OK, and probably better than most tap water. If this was an extract batch, RO water is ideal.
so you intend it to have high carbonation? if so it might or might not be a contamination issue. how much priming sugar/gallon did you add?
Usually people introduce wild yeast on accident when pitching or sampling a fermenting beer, or during packaging.
Since you bottled this, did you use tap water or RO for your priming solution?
Tell us more about your procedure. When you brew do you use vinyl tubing when transferring hot wort? Hot wort will pull flavors and aromas out of clear vinyl tubing.
Wild yeast can take hold when you are racking or if you miss something in your cleaning procedure. Not very common but possible.
A combination of issues can cause off flavors so if none of these strike a cord and it happens again keeping notes about your procedure can help figure it out.
Tell us more about your procedure. When you brew do you use vinyl tubing when transferring hot wort? Hot wort will pull flavors and aromas out of clear vinyl tubing.
Wild yeast can take hold when you are racking or if you miss something in your cleaning procedure. Not very common but possible.
A combination of issues can cause off flavors so if none of these strike a cord and it happens again keeping notes about your procedure can help figure it out.
RO water for the Priming solution.
No tubing to transfer hot wort. Boil, copper chill, pitch, pour into bucket, seal and add air lock.
I must have made an error in my cleaning. I live by that "cleanliness is next to godliness" when it comes to brewing... but perhaps I missed a step...
The concentration of iodine? 2Tbsp -> 5 Gal = 25ppm...
I'm so confused.
Pommy
Well-Known Member
The amount of head-space sounds like it could cause an issue to me. co2 sits on top of the brew but its certainly not the impenetrable wall some people seem to think it can be. It may not have been the cause of the issue but I wouldn't leave a beer with that much head-space for any amount of time.
Navy_Chief
Well-Known Member
From the symptoms described my vote is on a wild yeast problem, it may have been introduced during bottling. Did you sample the beer prior to bottling? How did it taste then?
mjohnson
Well-Known Member
I also use RO with good results following the primer in the brew science forum. Do continue to use RO if you have it! Without adding any minerals, the beer might not be awesome, but I don't think it would be bad like you're describing.
Were multiple bottles bad? Or have you only opened one (hoping you had a single dirty bottle)? I also think it sounds like either bad yeast health or wild yeast. Wild yeast are all over the place. My understanding is that the only defense we have against them is by bombarding our wort with good yeast. Strength in numbers, I guess.
Were multiple bottles bad? Or have you only opened one (hoping you had a single dirty bottle)? I also think it sounds like either bad yeast health or wild yeast. Wild yeast are all over the place. My understanding is that the only defense we have against them is by bombarding our wort with good yeast. Strength in numbers, I guess.
With good sanitation practices, and being observent at critical steps wild yeast contamination should be easy to avoid. Wild yeast are in dust particles so minimizing exposure of wort and or any thing that will touch wort to air movement (wind) will help.
Also a good test if you are concerned about your practices is to take a sample of your wort, post boil and chill but before pitching, into a sanitized vessel covered with Aluminum foil (say 100-500ml) and set it next to where you will be fermenting your beer. If this wort shows any activity in under a week, you have a sanitation issue post boil. If you have no activity for a week, your problem might be with pitching, fermenting ,or packaging. If you are using a bottling bucket, the bucket valve and stem valve can be sources of problems.
Another problem I have run into, when re-using bottles some times you get one that was not a clean as you though it was.
Also a good test if you are concerned about your practices is to take a sample of your wort, post boil and chill but before pitching, into a sanitized vessel covered with Aluminum foil (say 100-500ml) and set it next to where you will be fermenting your beer. If this wort shows any activity in under a week, you have a sanitation issue post boil. If you have no activity for a week, your problem might be with pitching, fermenting ,or packaging. If you are using a bottling bucket, the bucket valve and stem valve can be sources of problems.
Another problem I have run into, when re-using bottles some times you get one that was not a clean as you though it was.
RO water for the Priming solution.
No tubing to transfer hot wort. Boil, copper chill, pitch, pour into bucket, seal and add air lock.
I must have made an error in my cleaning. I live by that "cleanliness is next to godliness" when it comes to brewing... but perhaps I missed a step...
The concentration of iodine? 2Tbsp -> 5 Gal = 25ppm...
I'm so confused.
Wait. How much Iodine?
Typically, homebrewers do 12.5 ppm for a no-rinse concentration, and I have used Iodophor which is 1 tablespoon in 5 gallons of water. Even though 12.5 ppm is supposed to be below the taste threshold, I can taste it a bit if too much is left in the bottles.
Ramitt
Well-Known Member
I had several batches with off flavors when using RO water from those grocery store machines. I no longer have the source, but it seems not all RO systems remove chloramines. Switching to bottled spring water and then to filtration system (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/water-filter-setup-29145/) and campden tabs fixed the problem for me.
cheezydemon3
Well-Known Member
*WARNING....HERE HE GOES AGAIN*
If you can identify the taste of garden hose, then I hate to think of all the lead in your system.....
The reason they make food safe hoses is because garden hoses are made of crap that is BAD for you.
I know!!! YOU drank from the hose all the time and you turned out FINE! How would you know if you could have been 5% smarter? You wouldn't.
Carry on!
If you can identify the taste of garden hose, then I hate to think of all the lead in your system.....
The reason they make food safe hoses is because garden hoses are made of crap that is BAD for you.
I know!!! YOU drank from the hose all the time and you turned out FINE! How would you know if you could have been 5% smarter? You wouldn't.
Carry on!
Hmmm
Here's something interesting. I had a commercial miller 64 last night and could almost taste that same flavor. Could it be an overload of hop type??? I'll post my recipe.
Yes I used 25 ppm per io star directions. So 12ppm next time, ay?
Here's something interesting. I had a commercial miller 64 last night and could almost taste that same flavor. Could it be an overload of hop type??? I'll post my recipe.
Yes I used 25 ppm per io star directions. So 12ppm next time, ay?
"Overload of hops" in a Miller 64? Certainly not.
GarageBeerGarden
Member
Definately sounds like phenols to me. Earlier posters hit that on the head. Plastic-y, rubbery phenols are usually a product of yeast. Either a wild yeast strain (infection), or due to the yeast you used to brew. Some yeast strains produce more phenols than others, especially at higher fermentation temps. Probably can't save this batch, but next time I'd try a different yeast strain and be attentive to your fermentation temerature. I wouldn't think the RO water issue would be a major cause of this problem. Naturally, water composition will effect flavor, and not enough yeast nutrients could certainly have an effect especially if there was a slow start to fermentation, but I would concentrate on the yeast more than the water for the root of the problem. Or it could just be a funky combination of everything people have posted; water comp. sanitation, chemicals, equipment, yeast, ect. Sorry. That last bit wasn't too helpful.
jbsg02 said:
I used Nottingham ale. Dry yeast, started it with .5 L warm water. Pitched. Passed back and forth between pot and bucket. Left to ferment in primary for 7 days. Transferred to secondaries. Temps were about 74 but I had the temps hit 80 for about a full day before moving the container.
JuanMoore
Getting the banned back together
In my experience nottingham produces a lot of fusels and other nasty tasting stuff when fermented warm. 80F during peak fermentation is way hot for that yeast. I try to keep it below 70F, and ambient below 65F when using notty.
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