Beer Bug

[HiImBrian]

Last night as I was racking my beer, I found this little guy clinging to the side of the primary carboy. Initially I was ticked that somehow this guy had snuck in there aside from my being very careful about staying clean and sanitary, then I started thinking about potential bug puns and/or new names for this brew, and ended with wondering what the heck I’m supposed to do with this batch.

This is a Belgian Tripel with an OG of 1.102 and an estimated FG of 1.015. Currently it’s sitting at 1.040 after about 2.5 months. I pitched a 2 smack pack starter that was stepped up once, followed by a fresh smack pack about 1.5 months in to try and get it unstuck. I was initially fermenting around 72F before I dropped that down to around 66F, but ended up taking it back to the 72F to try and keep things going. I don’t think much is going to happen at this point unless I pitch yet another smack pack, but even then, I doubt this beer has much O2 left and the yeast will likely just die off right away.

Do I just cut my losses and dump it, or do I push forward with this “pesty” batch?

 

[jrgtr42]

That bug is inside the carboy?
I'm pretty wary of that. Have you tasted it? Does it taste off in any way?
I also am wondering why after 2.5 MONTHS your beer is still way off from final.
At this point I'd be seriously considering cutting losses and dumping it.
Bug notwithstanding, what is the recipe and procedure on the brew, try to figure out why it's still so high.

 

[HiImBrian]

Yes, I found that bug clinging to the inside of the carboy after I went to rinse it out. Since the gravity is still super high, I cannot tell if there are really any off flavors over all the residual sweetness.

This brew was no different than any other except that I added 1.5lbs of Belgian candi with 10 min to go in the boil. This is what brought my OG way up. I can only imagine that my starter was funked up in some way, and by the time I added another smack pack the beer had little oxygen left in it. The odd thing is that the fermentation took off super strong with lots of activity, and then just suddenly stopped short. In the 3 years I’ve been brewing, this is the first time I’ve had a stuck fermentation. I honestly might just stick this guy in the closet like so many others have done and try to forget about it for a long while haha. I’d rather do that than dump it at this point I think actually.

 

[jrgtr42]

I suppose it's possible the bug got in there after you racked - and wasn;t there when the beer was fermenting.
If you have spare carboys, it wouldn't hurt to throw it in that closet - it may take off again sometime, or you can toss some souring bugs in or something - the possibilities are endless.

 

[beergolf]

If you want to try to salvage it you can always do the 3711 bomb. Make a starter of 3711 and pitch it at high krausen. That stuff will ferment anything.

YEAST STRAIN: 3711 | French Saison

Back to Yeast Strain List

A very versatile strain that produces Saison or farmhouse style beers as well as other Belgian style beers that are highly aromatic (estery), peppery, spicy and citrusy. This strain enhances the use of spices and aroma hops, and is extremely attenuative but leaves an unexpected silky and rich mouthfeel. This strain can also be used to re-start stuck fermentations or in high gravity beers.

Origin:
Flocculation: Low
Attenuation: 77-83%
Temperature Range: 65-77F 18-25C
Alcohol Tolerance: ABV 12%

 

[HiImBrian]

The bug was dead, so I have to imagine it's been in there a while. I think I'm going to hide it and forget about it for some time. Boo hiss at my first difficult fermentation!

 

[chickypad]

Honestly I'm more worried about a tripel finishing at 1.040 than the bug. Seems odd if it took off super strong, what strain? You're not going by an uncorrected refractometer reading are you?

 

[m00ps]

holy crap 1.102 is more like a quad (or even a pent?). But yeah, no beer should be finished at 1.040 especially anything with highly attenuating belgian yeast. Its even more surprising that an additional yeast pitch didnt help. There's definitely something off if its still there after 2.5 months. That longer than ive let any of my non-brett/sours belgians go. What was your recipe and mash, fermentation temps etc

 

[ja09]

I was initially fermenting around 72F before I dropped that down to around 66F, but ended up taking it back to the 72F to try and keep things going.

This sounds like your issue. Most strains will go dormant with large drops in temp and are tough to wake back up. If you can't get it going again I would personally sour it and come up with every bug pun imaginable over the next year. Lots of good sugars still in there for a sour blend. Could turn out really nice with Roselare.

 

[beergolf]

This sounds like your issue. Most strains will go dormant with large drops in temp and are tough to wake back up. If you can't get it going again I would personally sour it and come up with every bug pun imaginable over the next year. Lots of good sugars still in there for a sour blend. Could turn out really nice with Roselare.

I missed that part. I agree that is your issue for the stall.

Here is a good quote from Chris White

Chris White of White Labs yeast, says of Belgian yeasts.

"When you cool them, they stop. They go into survival mode. You can try rousing them, raising the temperature, but they won't start again. You just have to add new yeast."

 

[HiImBrian]

Thanks for all of the response guys. The temps that I listed are essentially my basement vs my kitchen. I do not have any set temperature control at this point, so the 72F and 66F are averages based on my fluctuating house temps. Lesson learned that it’s probably not a good idea to switch between the two.

My question remains as to why, after I added fresh yeast, did they not finish off? I’m contemplating yet another fresh smack pack followed by some heavy aeration. Thoughts on this?

Also, is 1388 a weaker yeast? I have an IPA that’s been fermenting right beside this and went through that same temp change with no issues. I’m using WLP090 in that which I know is pretty tough.

 

[homebrewdad]

One thing that can sometimes work for rousing a Belgian yeast is to add a little simple sugar (i.e. table sugar). Wake them up with that, and they may keep eating.

 

[LKABrewer]

Do not add oxygen. Your best bet to get fermentation going again is to add new yeast to .5-1 liter of 1.040 wort then add it to your beer at high krausen.

 

[Mismost]

Do not add oxygen. Your best bet to get fermentation going again is to add new yeast to .5-1 liter of 1.040 wort then add it to your beer at high krausen.

why not add oxygen...it has not finished fermentation....I would think the exact opposite may be more helpful.

Just curious.

 

[HiImBrian]

why not add oxygen...it has not finished fermentation....I would think the exact opposite may be more helpful.

Just curious.

I'm also wondering this...

 

[slym2none]

Since fermentation has already started (dropped ~60 gravity points, no?) then oxidizing the beer would probably be a bad idea.

 

[CBXBob]

Just thinking outside the box, maybe try a champagne yeast, more tolerant to the alcohol already there?

 

[spittybug]

Think like a refiner...blend it away...

The next batch of beer you make, split it into 2 fermenters. Fill each with half of the new wort, half of the stuck tripel. That way it isn't wasted and you'll get it started with the fresh wort and yeast.

Voila.

As for the bug... no problem, his protein won't foam things too much.

 

[DrunkleJon]

why not add oxygen...it has not finished fermentation....I would think the exact opposite may be more helpful.

Just curious.

You dont want to add oxygen for two reasons. Firstly you dont want to oxidize the beer, secondly, oxygen is only needed for the aerobic (yeast multiplication, no alcohol made) phase, you want to continue the anaerobic phase (which makes alcohol).

Since this is a higher gravity, higher alcohol brew you may want to consider some winemaking practices. Maybe try using a wine whip or something similar to try to get the dissolved CO2 level down some. High concentrations of dissolved CO2 can be hard on yeast.

And dont worry about the bug. If you havent noticed any infection signs yet you probably wont see them.

 

[HiImBrian]

Just thinking outside the box, maybe try a champagne yeast, more tolerant to the alcohol already there?

I thought of that, but I don't think champagne yeast would mix well in a Belgian beer...

Think like a refiner...blend it away...

The next batch of beer you make, split it into 2 fermenters. Fill each with half of the new wort, half of the stuck tripel. That way it isn't wasted and you'll get it started with the fresh wort and yeast.

Voila.

As for the bug... no problem, his protein won't foam things too much.

This would probably work actually, but I already have my next few brews figured out, and this Belgian is NOT one of them haha.

You dont want to add oxygen for two reasons. Firstly you dont want to oxidize the beer, secondly, oxygen is only needed for the aerobic (yeast multiplication, no alcohol made) phase, you want to continue the anaerobic phase (which makes alcohol).

Since this is a higher gravity, higher alcohol brew you may want to consider some winemaking practices. Maybe try using a wine whip or something similar to try to get the dissolved CO2 level down some. High concentrations of dissolved CO2 can be hard on yeast.

And dont worry about the bug. If you havent noticed any infection signs yet you probably wont see them.

My LHBS sells Beta Amylase. I’m thinking I could add maybe 1/2 tsp to help break down the long chain sugars into simple chains for fresh new yeast to chow down on. Thoughts?

 

[chickypad]

Champagne yeast I think will only work on some sugars, not maltose and maltotriose if I understand correctly. If your numbers are right the beer should only be about 8% right now, and that strain should go to 12-13%, so I don't think it's an alcohol tolerance issue. I don't think we know enough to know if amylase will help at all. As others mentioned it's probably that you have a finicky yeast (as noted on the Wyeast site) that you cooled down mid fermentation and it quit.

A few questions - what was your actual recipe? Thinking about a few things like
- are we sure on that OG (i.e. if extract could it be a mixing issue)
- if all grain what was your mash temp, and are your thermometers calibrated (wondering if you could have accidentally mashed really high - in which case something like enzymes might be considered)
- did I miss it or did you confirm that you are not using an uncorrected refractometer reading for your FG?

 

[DrunkleJon]

Is this an extract batch, partial mash or all grain?
The enzymes should be able to break down the complex sugars some, but this does not always work. Additionally, enzymes often can and will dry out a beer too much if the problem is the sugars.
Sometimes batches just stick and are practically un-stickable. These beers are usually used for blending with something lighter bodied, or just drank as is.

 

[HiImBrian]

Champagne yeast I think will only work on some sugars, not maltose and maltotriose if I understand correctly. If your numbers are right the beer should only be about 8% right now, and that strain should go to 12-13%, so I don't think it's an alcohol tolerance issue. I don't think we know enough to know if amylase will help at all. As others mentioned it's probably that you have a finicky yeast (as noted on the Wyeast site) that you cooled down mid fermentation and it quit.

A few questions - what was your actual recipe? Thinking about a few things like
- are we sure on that OG (i.e. if extract could it be a mixing issue)
- if all grain what was your mash temp, and are your thermometers calibrated (wondering if you could have accidentally mashed really high - in which case something like enzymes might be considered)
- did I miss it or did you confirm that you are not using an uncorrected refractometer reading for your FG?

I'll post recipe shortly, but to answer your questions:

- I'm positive on my 1.102 OG as I used a hydrometer as well as a freshly calibrated refractometer.
- This was brewed all grain and mashed at 153 in a cooler and held temp perfectly. I haven't calibrated my thermometer in a while, so I'll check that tonight. I can't imagine it'd be off enough to make a significant difference. Especially when I've brewed with it since then and had good results.
- I only use a refractometer for my OG. I've been using a hydrometer to calculate the gravity at this point following by tasting the hydro sample and gaging at the excess sweetness.

 

[HiImBrian]

See attached recipe. Mash was set at 153F for 60 min and my fly sparge was likely low as it's very difficult to get the whole temp up to 170F.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1438787812.537128.jpg

 

[chickypad]

Well that eliminates some things then. Wyeast suggests racking and trying to rouse the yeast when stuck, but I'm a little skeptical that will work. I think beergolf's suggestion of making a big starter of 3711 and pitching at high krausen may be your best bet.

 

[HiImBrian]

When I found the bug I was racking to do just that...rouse the yeast. So far it doesn't look like much has happened.

I'll likely throw in more yeast, but thinking that a bit of beta amylase might not be a bad thing to look into.