Been Brewing Cider for Awhile

[1bottlerocket]

I have not been too active on the forum over the last year or so but have been keeping busy with cider making.

In the last year I have made another 8 batches and been getting steadily better and temperature control and handling. The ciders are now drinking pretty well and there is a nice aging/drinking rotation.

I ended up renting a cellar space that has very stable temperatures and installing some shelves and temperature control devices. Some local farmers also agreed to a custom pressed apple juice. It has turned out well, though more expensive than store bought.

A couple festivals resulted with decent results so I am happy about that. I am now moving on to beer making and getting ready to start this new chapter. The plan is to do both, as I will be able with to adapt some of the beer making equipment for cider making.

 

[bmd2k1]

What are ur go to cider recipes?

 

[1bottlerocket]

I have been keeping it simple and pretty straight forward.

I have been using White Labs English Cider Yeast with fresh pressed apple juice I get from a local farmer. He has worked with me very well on getting just the right thing.

I have learned how to work with the yeast and fermentation through temperature control and racking. Kind of boring really, the most interesting thing I do is add some medium toast oak chips during secondary. It has a very nice effect on the color and flavor.

I have yet to try keeving but once I get the nerve I will give it a go.

 

[Jhoss]

Right On BottleRocket. Looking forward to your progress.

 

[1bottlerocket]

Right On BottleRocket. Looking forward to your progress.

Thanks for the reply. I am seriously considering making a career change and taking up professional production. I simply love what I am doing and find it very fascinating.

 

[Baabaad00]

So does temp control help w/ ciders? Does it help retain the apple flavor more? rather than just letting it explode?

 

[1bottlerocket]

So does temp control help w/ ciders? Does it help retain the apple flavor more? rather than just letting it explode?

I have been going with the school of thought of an early racking when SG is around 1.020-1.040, while primary fermentation is still quite active. I calculate the speed of fermentation and then use stabilization rackings to help stop yeast production. I shoot for a slow a fermentation as possible. I aim to keep the temperature around 15°C

My main focus on temperature is to help prevent a stuck fermentation in order to reactivate the yeast. In the event I overdo it with the stabilization racking the temperature can help move things along with the yeast.

The last batch done this way required no added sweetener and had a very nice apple flavor. So far, no bottle bombs.

 

[Baabaad00]

Do you ferment it dry? I'm specifically asking if u ferment dry.

 

[1bottlerocket]

No, I do not ferment dry.

 

[Baabaad00]

so im assuming you dont bottle carb?

 

[1bottlerocket]

I use a bright tank for bulk aging and carbonation, if needed.

 

[Baabaad00]

you're very cut and dry in your responses. I'm newer to brewing ciders and would like recommendations. You always use White Labs English Cider Yeast? Do you ever switch it up? You ever use the wild yeast in the cider? What conditions would you recommend for others to ferment in to retain the most apple flavor, no matter how far they are planning on fermenting? How long do you age? What difference do you notice when you do age vs not?

 

[1bottlerocket]

you're very cut and dry in your responses. I'm newer to brewing ciders and would like recommendations. You always use White Labs English Cider Yeast? Do you ever switch it up? You ever use the wild yeast in the cider? What conditions would you recommend for others to ferment in to retain the most apple flavor, no matter how far they are planning on fermenting? How long do you age? What difference do you notice when you do age vs not?

Sorry for that!

I started out using a variety of different yeasts but I felt I always got different results that were average. I read a couple books on cider making and saw that a lot of more experienced makers would only reference 1 yeast.

So, I picked one and decided to learn as much about it as possible. I decided to take a fair test approach, if you will limiting the variables as much as possible. The only thing I would change is the blend of apples.

I like fermenting at as low a temperature as possible, around 16 c , and keeping that as steady as possible. My goal was to find the best balance of a slow fermentation without stressing the yeast too much.

I converted a room to a cider house and installed a climate control system. Then installed a thermometer to keep track of the conditions.

I have never tried wild yeast, as I find it a bit of a chance that I am not willing to take. I have a friend who produces professionally and he swears by it and does it exclusively. His ciders are really good in my opinion.

I do age my cider for up to a year. I have found that it changes over time and smooths out. I used to bottle age but since getting the brite tanks I bulk age and carbonate with the tank. This is a really good setup for me, but expensive. The cider I am drinking now is really balanced and the oak is not so forward.

To retain the most apple flavor, I do this through multiple racking and try to reduce the yeast population as much as possible to stop fermentation. This is time consuming and you have to keep good notes. For me the key has been to try and stop fermentation around SG 1.010-1.015, putting it in the semi-dry range.

I hope that helps! I am a bit more clinical in my approach.

 

[Jhoss]

Right on! If I'm not mistaken, you, like me, are disciples of one Claude Jolicouer..? I believe he too is a fan of the wild yeast. I too am too chicken at this point to risk it. Maybe once my trees are dropping tons of apples it will be worth a try.

 

[bernardsmith]

But most orchards - I suspect - are not the true source of the wild yeasts. Those creatures are to be found lurking in the scratters and presses that press hundreds and hundreds of gallons of juice. Sure I suspect that your apples have a few cells of yeast on the skins and certainly on the skins of apples with damaged skins but I would think that in the equipment you are more likely to find the equivalent numbers of lab packaged yeast.

 

[1bottlerocket]

Right on! If I'm not mistaken, you, like me, are disciples of one Claude Jolicouer..? I believe he too is a fan of the wild yeast. I too am too chicken at this point to risk it. Maybe once my trees are dropping tons of apples it will be worth a try.

Yes, big fan of Jolicouer. His methods, (and lots of practice!) overhauled my cider making.

 

[bmd2k1]

Sorry for that!

I started out using a variety of different yeasts but I felt I always got different results that were average. I read a couple books on cider making and saw that a lot of more experienced makers would only reference 1 yeast.

So, I picked one and decided to learn as much about it as possible. I decided to take a fair test approach, if you will limiting the variables as much as possible. The only thing I would change is the blend of apples.

I like fermenting at as low a temperature as possible, around 16 c , and keeping that as steady as possible. My goal was to find the best balance of a slow fermentation without stressing the yeast too much.

I converted a room to a cider house and installed a climate control system. Then installed a thermometer to keep track of the conditions.

I have never tried wild yeast, as I find it a bit of a chance that I am not willing to take. I have a friend who produces professionally and he swears by it and does it exclusively. His ciders are really good in my opinion.

I do age my cider for up to a year. I have found that it changes over time and smooths out. I used to bottle age but since getting the brite tanks I bulk age and carbonate with the tank. This is a really good setup for me, but expensive. The cider I am drinking now is really balanced and the oak is not so forward.

To retain the most apple flavor, I do this through multiple racking and try to reduce the yeast population as much as possible to stop fermentation. This is time consuming and you have to keep good notes. For me the key has been to try and stop fermentation around SG 1.010-1.015, putting it in the semi-dry range.

I hope that helps! I am a bit more clinical in my approach.

What kind/size of brite tanks are you using?

Cheers!

 

[madscientist451]

!



To retain the most apple flavor, I do this through multiple racking and try to reduce the yeast population as much as possible to stop fermentation. This is time consuming and you have to keep good notes. For me the key has been to try and stop fermentation around SG 1.010-1.015, putting it in the semi-dry range.

I'm going to try this next season. So if your cider starts at 1.050-1.060, you're doing the first racking at 1.040-1.020? That's a pretty wide range. Also, do you keep the temperature the same the whole way through? Or do you cold crash it before you rack it?

 

[1bottlerocket]

I'm going to try this next season. So if your cider starts at 1.050-1.060, you're doing the first racking at 1.040-1.020? That's a pretty wide range. Also, do you keep the temperature the same the whole way through? Or do you cold crash it before you rack it?

I go with constant temperature, but rack more often with the goal of stabilizing the cider by reducing the yeast population. White Labs indicates the optimum fermentation temperature is 20°C- 22°C but I find it does fine at 16°C any higher and it ferments out too fast for my preference. It is very slow but that is my goal. I pitch the yeast initially in a lab flask with a warmer sample to ensure a healthy yeast population. The juice temperature, according to my measurements, is usually about 2°c-3°c higher than the ambient temperature. I pitch warm initially then go cool.

 

[1bottlerocket]

What kind/size of brite tanks are you using?

Cheers!

I have a custom order 120l, jacketed bright tank from Stout Brewing and Kettles. It is rated to 30 psi and fitted with a carbonation stone. In my experience the carbonation has to be stepped up slowly, and in increments, or it gets too foamy on top and harder to pour. I start off with about 0.5 psi and increment in steps up from there to about 2.5 volumes of Co2 (5 psi. according to a carbonation calculator) I am not sure why this works but it seems to produce more even results.