BE-134 (I'm probably just impatient)

[Coffeeturnal]

Hello,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I'm a bit new to home-brew (on batch #6). Anyway, I'm making a hoppy saison (latest hydrometer sample suggests maybe too hoppy, but we'll see). I've been sticking to 2.5 Gallon batches while I figure all of this out.

I used BE-134 in this batch, which I know is a Diastaticus variant. How long should I wait for the amylase production to really kick in? I've had it in the fermenter for 10 days now and am sitting at 1.012 SG. BrewersFriend suggested that this yeast should take me down to 1.006 and I've seen a few forum posts of people having it take them much lower.

My malt bill is:
5lb Pilsener
1lb White Wheat
.5lb Table Sugar

OG: 1.065

I kept it in a room in the mid 60s for 3 days, then put it in my garage which has been right around 80 for the rest of the time. I was at 1.013 a week ago (I checked because fermentation seemed to have subsided) and 1.012 yesterday.

Do I assume it's done? Or does the Diastaticus take a while to ferment out? I don't want to assume it's done and get bottle bombs.

Thanks

 

[mongoose33]

Hello,

Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I'm a bit new to home-brew (on batch #6). Anyway, I'm making a hoppy saison (latest hydrometer sample suggests maybe too hoppy, but we'll see). I've been sticking to 2.5 Gallon batches while I figure all of this out.

A hydrometer sample will measure the sugar content of the wort/beer, but it won't tell you anything about hoppiness.

I used BE-134 in this batch, which I know is a Diastaticus variant. How long should I wait for the amylase production to really kick in?

You may be a bit confused about what yeast does. Amylase is an enzyme that converts starch to sugars during the mash. It's destroyed during the boil. The Beta and Alpha versions of amylase are the two with which we are concerned during the mash. You're not going to get amylase production during fermentation.

I've had it in the fermenter for 10 days now and am sitting at 1.012 SG. BrewersFriend suggested that this yeast should take me down to 1.006 and I've seen a few forum posts of people having it take them much lower.

Same grain bill?

My malt bill is:
5lb Pilsener
1lb White Wheat
.5lb Table Sugar

OG: 1.065

I kept it in a room in the mid 60s for 3 days, then put it in my garage which has been right around 80 for the rest of the time. I was at 1.013 a week ago (I checked because fermentation seemed to have subsided) and 1.012 yesterday.

Do I assume it's done? Or does the Diastaticus take a while to ferment out? I don't want to assume it's done and get bottle bombs.

Thanks

Take another hydrometer reading in 2 days; if it's still at 1.012, it's done. This is one of the issues with using hydrometer readings with small batches--you use up a high proportion of the beer in taking readings.

 

[Coffeeturnal]

A hydrometer sample will measure the sugar content of the wort/beer, but it won't tell you anything about hoppiness.

I drank the sample, that's how I tested for hoppiness.

You may be a bit confused about what yeast does. Amylase is an enzyme that converts starch to sugars during the mash. It's destroyed during the boil. The Beta and Alpha versions of amylase are the two with which we are concerned during the mash. You're not going to get amylase production during fermentation.

Diastaticus has a gene that creates gluco-amylase which can break down higher order sugars as far as I understand it. I'm concerned that that is possible a slow process. I know that beta and alpha amylase are gone.

Same grain bill?

Pretty similar. More specialty grains in them.

Yeah, I lose a decent chunk to samples with the small batches. I haven't had any batches I didn't like yet, but I'm waiting until I regularly get batches that I REALLY like to scale up a bit. Sort of self imposed training wheels. I'll get there eventually

 

[mongoose33]

Well, you sent me off to Google to check this out, and I learned something tonite. I also learned that a hydrometer sample can be used to judge hoppiness if you lay the hydrometer aside, and DRINK IT.

Here's one article I ran across: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/j.2050-0416.1982.tb04114.x It talks primarily about how the yeasts (they tested several) convert starch.

I'm not 100 percent sure how all this is supposed to work; is the purpose of this to get very dry beers?

I also checked out the Fermentis tech sheet on this yeast (https://fermentis.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/SafAle-BE-134_Rev2.pdf) and it notes the ideal fermentation temps are from 64 to 82 F. So you're there, though at the end I'd see it as a little bit high given the exothermic action of the yeast.

Would you mind sharing where you learned about this and how others are using it?

 

[Coffeeturnal]

Yeah, the purpose is to create super dry beers. As I understand it, it is primarily saisons that this is used on.

More commonly, diastaticus is a "contamination" that causes beers to over attenuate; this gives the potential for bottle bombs if you package at expected FG.

Basically I got all of the information from googling for reviews of this yeast before I used it. I then followed a rabbit trail of googling just searching for anything that I didn't understand. I'm a habitual over researcher by nature and trade.

Milk the Funk has a nice section on diastaticus in their Saccharomyces page.



Honestly, I'd be ok if it didn't attenuate more; it's pretty tasty as is. I just don't want to have a mess to clean up from being too hasty.

 

[Coffeeturnal]

Also, thanks for the article

I'll check it out after work. Just read the abstract and it sounds really interesting.

 

[thehaze]

I've used BE-134 once back in November 2017 and bottled it in December. It took around 15-16 days to reach 1.007 from 1.070, but it seemed slow. So I would wait a few days more and take one more sample there.

 

[Hopsimus]

My last two saisons both used diastaticus yeasts (wyeast 3711 for one and white labs 590 for the other).
A let both of them sit for 3 weeks. Both started with about 1.055 gravity and both ended at 1.002.

What mash temp did you use? A higher mash will still affect the FG even with a diastaticus yeast (though perhaps not as much as a regular yeast).

I agree with thehaze, give it a few more days and check again.

Cheers!

 

[mj1angier]

I just used this same yeast on 2 batches and it took about 3 weeks to finish.

And it makes a very dry beer. Almost dry white wine like.

I will again with a bit higher mash temp.

 

[Coffeeturnal]

Cool, sounds like the general consensus is wait a bit longer. I'll check again around next weekend. That'll get me to the 3 week mark.

I mashed in the 140s (control of mash temp is probably the weakest link in my brewing right now). Was definitely in the Beta favored range though. Unless I did something weird that I didn't catch, it should be highly fermentable.

Thanks