Basement brew room

[Goon]

I will be building out my basement in the next year or so and i would like to designate a portion of it to a brew room. How many others have done this? Is it safe to use powerful burners in a basement? What about the moisture from boiling? Interested in some of your real world experiences.

 

[unionrdr]

Well, with gas burners indoors, you'll need a hood over the stove/boil area. Chop & brew Has a basement rig you can see on youtube. you'll definitely need one to exhaust the fumes & steam. you can see the exhaust hood they have in their basement brewery in this video;

 

[ThomasO5608]

I just built a brew room and went all electric. I would not use propane/natural gas burner that size inside the house (many people do) for several reasons. You will also need to account for ventilation as you will be boiling off 1.5-2 gal per hour. Here is a link to everything you could want to know about building a home brewery.
www.theelectricbrewery.com

 

[steveoatley]

Here are a couple to keep you reading all day

I am starting an Electric Basement Brewery soon - this I s part of my research.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/hoppos-e-brewery-build-283510/


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f253/hunters-basement-e-brewery-build-447201/


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/another-basement-brewery-build-515669/


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f256/easy-cheap-stainless-vent-hood-418665/


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f253/basement-electric-brewery-366810/


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f253/my-eherms-mostly-kal-clone-home-brewery-421059/


Steve

 

[madscientist451]

If you go with propane burners in the basement, you need put the propane tank outside and run your propane line in. If you already have natural gas you can use that. Make provisions for getting fresh air in. It may be easier to go electric. Restaurants go out of business all the time, you may be able to pick up a used commercial range hood for venting and some other stainless steel tables and a sink.

 

[Hello]

If I had to choose, I think I'd go NG inside. Though people are linking you to electric, those plans and such for ventilation are entirely insufficient for venting gas, propane or NG. You can kill yourself without proper ventilation. Also, you have to keep in mind your make up air with ventilation. You can't use a 400 CFM fan with gas and think that is okay. There's a calculation out there somewhere, but 400 CFM is okay for electric but definitely not okay for gas. With the size vent you need, I would be very concerned about make up air and what is in that basement.

It can be done, but it has to be done right. Buy a carbon monoxide detector, or two, first so if anything is going wrong while you're building, you'll know.

 

[steveoatley]

I think if you look at Kal's site

www.theelectricbrewery.com

the argument for Electric is VERY strong, and hard to argue against.(some will try)
Safety first.

2 cents

 

[ThomasO5608]

If I had to choose, I think I'd go NG inside. Though people are linking you to electric, those plans and such for ventilation are entirely insufficient for venting gas, propane or NG. You can kill yourself without proper ventilation. Also, you have to keep in mind your make up air with ventilation. You can't use a 400 CFM fan with gas and think that is okay. There's a calculation out there somewhere, but 400 CFM is okay for electric but definitely not okay for gas. With the size vent you need, I would be very concerned about make up air and what is in that basement.

It can be done, but it has to be done right. Buy a carbon monoxide detector, or two, first so if anything is going wrong while you're building, you'll know.

You are right on the money with this. If you calculate the air needed to exhaust a gas system you would need an air make up system that would far exceed the cost of going to an electric system.

 

[Grannyknot]

I work for a company that builds science labs & we deal with ventilation of poisonous gases on a daily basis.

The most important thing is a balanced system.
If you are pulling 400-600cfm through your exhaust hood, you need to be putting outside air in that amount into the room unrestricted. A standard home hvac system only does 50-100cfm if I remember correctly.
I suppose if you had a box fan in a window across from the brew stand, you would be ok, except you would be blowing unconditioned air in, prob not ideal in the summer or winter. Even with the box fan, I would test the airflow on both sides with a cfm meter, & possibly ask a testing agency to do a trace gas test on your system (not as expensive as it sounds). If you put a carbon monoxide detector in the brew room, make sure and put one upstairs as well.

The brewery on Chop & Brew looks really cool, but I have always wondered about the safety.

 

[DoWBrewer]

I almost exclusively brew in my basement. I didn't have a ton of money to spend, so I went BIAB. I use 120v induction burner and 120v heating element. I use the mash tun from my 3-tier system for my kettle/biab mashtun. It is a 15.5 gallon Bayou Classic. You can pickup the induction burners for about $50 to $60, if you look around. The pre-wired element was about $40. It works great. I did my first 10-gallon batch two weeks ago. Other than being tight on space in the mashtun, it worked great. I have about 20 5 gallon batches under my belt.

 

[Hello]

You are right on the money with this. If you calculate the air needed to exhaust a gas system you would need an air make up system that would far exceed the cost of going to an electric system.

And who says I can't still learn?


Look though, I don't mean to sound like I know more than the next guy, but in no way should you consider a box fan adequate ventilation. Hell, I don't think that's enough for my electric setup. The difference is, if I skimp on ventilation then I probably won't die. I just deal with condensation mostly. But if I'm firing propane or NG for hours then I'm likely screwed. Or I'll lose enough brain cells to make me even more useless.

Perhaps I'm wrong about the box fan, but that just threw red flags up all over my mind. I have a lot to learn so again, I could be super wrong.

 

[VladOfTrub]

"but 400 CFM is okay for electric but definitely not okay for gas."

400 CFM would be OK for gas, as long as a 300K BTU flame thrower wasn't fired up.

Rule of thumb for commercial hoods with commercial gas burners. 50 CFM per sq/ft of hood opening, 100K BTU, when the burners and hood are against a wall. Static pressure is not taken into account.
100 CFM per sq/ft, 100K BTU, when the burners and hood are in the open. (island) Static pressure is not taken into account.

Fresh air requirements for combustion, 1 square inch per 1K BTU input.

When there are gas fired, oil fired or wood burning, atmpspheric, appliances in the brewery, (chimney vented wood or gas fireplace, chimney vented boiler, furnace, water heater) will be affected by the hood's exhaust. In which case, make up air will need to be supplied, to offset negative pressure. Sealed burner, direct vent appliances are not affected.

 

[Goon]

Wow, thanks for all the great information. Definitely a lot to consider. It may be an issue to vent the room effectively.

 

[Hello]

"but 400 CFM is okay for electric but definitely not okay for gas."

400 CFM would be OK for gas, as long as a 300K BTU flame thrower wasn't fired up.

Rule of thumb for commercial hoods with commercial gas burners. 50 CFM per sq/ft of hood opening, 100K BTU, when the burners and hood are against a wall. Static pressure is not taken into account.
100 CFM per sq/ft, 100K BTU, when the burners and hood are in the open. (island) Static pressure is not taken into account.

Fresh air requirements for combustion, 1 square inch per 1K BTU input.

When there are gas fired, oil fired or wood burning, atmpspheric, appliances in the brewery, (chimney vented wood or gas fireplace, chimney vented boiler, furnace, water heater) will be affected by the hood's exhaust. In which case, make up air will need to be supplied, to offset negative pressure. Sealed burner, direct vent appliances are not affected.

That makes some sense to me. I was just always told 400 CFM wasn't enough. But if it is, then good.

 

[Grannyknot]

And who says I can't still learn?


Look though, I don't mean to sound like I know more than the next guy, but in no way should you consider a box fan adequate ventilation. Hell, I don't think that's enough for my electric setup. The difference is, if I skimp on ventilation then I probably won't die. I just deal with condensation mostly. But if I'm firing propane or NG for hours then I'm likely screwed. Or I'll lose enough brain cells to make me even more useless.

Perhaps I'm wrong about the box fan, but that just threw red flags up all over my mind. I have a lot to learn so again, I could be super wrong.

I believe I was the one who suggested the box fan, as a possible way to return air into the room to balance the pull from a hood, NOT AS A VENTILATION SOURCE. I repeat, I never suggested that a box fan should be used to vent any moisture or gases. Please do not do this.

 

[Menhir]

Indoor propane use is a bad idea. If you run the calculations to estimate the volume of air that needs to be exchanged in order to do it safely, you will also find that it is prohibitively expensive and just not practical. If you have access to natural gas that is a much better option.

 

[Hello]

I believe I was the one who suggested the box fan, as a possible way to return air into the room to balance the pull from a hood, NOT AS A VENTILATION SOURCE. I repeat, I never suggested that a box fan should be used to vent any moisture or gases. Please do not do this.

Oh for make up air?

 

[Goon]

Again, thank sfor all the great comments and insights. I do have NG to the house (heat and cooking). My biggest issue will be ventilation and make up air. I have a feeling this dream of a brew room might morph into a fermentation, conditioning, and aging room. When I started this thread I thought that I could build a sculpture and put it in the basement instead of in the garage. This is quickly becoming not the case.

 

[philipCT]

I think if you look at Kal's site

www.theelectricbrewery.com

the argument for Electric is VERY strong, and hard to argue against.(some will try)
Safety first.

Agreed. Kal does the definitive math on heat sources and ventilation. That was the deciding factor for me. I went Kal-style electric and apart from the initial expense being substantial, it has worked out really well.

I did something a little unusual that you can see over on the right side of the brewline. I put in a single propane burner. This is for decoctions, starters, sterilizing things, making gelatin fining solutions and all kinds of little every-day ancillary tasks. This was a kooky idea I hadn't seen before but has worked out incredibly well. I use it all the time. These are usually short burns, the burner is only 15K BTU, and I always run the hood full blast during those times (400cfm with a separate make-up air duct on the other side of the room).

There's a wall and a door separating this brew-room from the tasting room/man cave outside, where there is a CO detector mounted.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: I don't direct heat those flasks anymore. The next time I used the flask pictured here, I was just about to fill it with a starter wort and tapped it lightly with a small metal pot. It had gotten so brittle from direct firing that it cracked open a dollar sized hole right at the bottom chine. I later learned these flasks are not meant to be direct fired (from a fellow brewer on HBT, of course!)