Barleywine questions

[And1129]

Hey all, I just brewed a barleywine a bit ago and I have a couple questions. I did end up using some malt extract, but it was still a hefty mash! It's been fermenting for about a week now, but I definitely do want to age it at least a year or so. The high-kreusen stage just elapsed and the yeast have mostly settled on the bottom and is not as active as it was a few days ago. Original gravity for this brew was 1.122 which is a bit higher than i expected.

I'm using Wyeast 1056 which should reach 11% ABV. I'm wondering if I should also pitch some Champagne yeast when i transfer it to a secondary fermenter. But i'm trying to make something similar to Mirror Mirror and am worried that Champagne yeast might dry it out a bit too much. If I did do that, when would be best to add that yeast?

Also, I'd like to dry hop it, so should I do that when i move it to secondary or should I do that a week or so before bottling?

 

[frazier]

Last question first: Yes, dry hop it a week before bottling.

As for adding another yeast - do you need to? What's the gravity at now? You're investing a lot of time and effort into this brew - don't make any spur of the moment decisions.

Cheers,

 

[jfk69]

I wouldn't add any yeast when transferring it to secondary. Depending on how long you put it in secondary, I probably WOULD add yeast at bottling time to insure carbonation. As an example, I'm doing an RIS on Wednesday of this week. It will (hopefully) be a high 10.XX ABV beer. I plan to secondary for 5+ months before bottling. I will add yeast at bottling time to insure I have enough healthy yeast to carb up the beer. You shouldn't need to add any yeast to your secondary, you should carry over enough from primary and racking to fully ferment the beer.

However, with THAT said, what was the expected FG of this batch? What was the mash temperature? What was the recipe? All of those things could have a profound impact on expected FG, and as a result, your ABV may be above the ability of the 1056 to handle it. In that case, you might benefit from a yeast addition, though you will be pitching any yeast now, dry/rehydrated/liquid or liquid with starter into a rather hostile environment.

 

[And1129]

I transferred it to secondary a few days ago and got some more data on it. Gravity at time of transfer was 1.026, so that puts current ABV at either 12.6% or 14.4% depending on using the standard formula or the alternate formula described at http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/ I think that may be as low as the FG will go, but i wouldn't be too surprised if it dropped a few more points. Looks like I got 77% attenuation. As for the grainbill, I used:

4.5 lbs Maris Otter Pale
3.5 lbs Pale 2-row
2.0 lbs Carafoam
1.0 lb White wheat malt
1.0 lb Biscuit
7.0 lbs Amber liquid malt extract

I mashed at 68C for 60 min with a mash-out step of 95C for 10 min.
I added the LME and boiled that SOB for 120 min. Mash pH was 5.4, and I did add some yeast nutrients. I tasted the hydrometer sample, and it did indeed taste alcoholic, but it was a bit hot and solventy, so I really hope that mellows out with time and conditioning. Looks as if I overshot my expected ABV of ~11 by boiling longer than I really needed to.

I don't think i'll use any champagne yeast now, but maybe I should water it down a bit? Another question for aging, should I let the whole batch sit in one carboy to age, or should I bottle it, and let all the bottles age?

 

[youreanimpulse]

I would think 1.026 is a good FG for a barleywine of that strength. I would bottle age it myself. I got limited bulk aging space . Mmmmm barleywine...

 

[youreanimpulse]

And +1 on fresh yeast at bottling, which could be champagne yeast.

 

[And1129]

Couldn't adding champagne yeast at bottling cause bottlebombs if say it dropped the gravity from 1.026 to like 1.008? From what I understand champagne yeast is highly attenuative, or are the remaining dissolved solids just not fermentable?

 

[sweetcell]

champagne yeast will likely do nothing. the 1056 will munch simple sugars first, then turn to maltose and maltotriose. if/when the 1056 craps out, there will only be those complex sugars left (mostly maltotriose). champagne yeast can only ferment simple sugars. so adding champagne yeast in secondary amounts to throwing it into an environment with no food.

worse yet, the champagne yeast will kill the ale yeast because of something called K-factor (or competitive factor). there is an excellent Brewing Network episode with Shea Comfort that talk all about wine yeast in beer, well worth the listen (there's a write-up on BBB: http://www.babblebelt.com/newboard/thread.html?tid=1108752780&th=1275037001).

champagne yeast in a big beer is useful when you add let your ale yeast do it's thing, then you add sugar to secondary (step-feeding). this is how DFH gets 120 Minute IPA up to those ridiculous ABV levels.