Bad results with PB2 and Vodka. Anyone try pasteurizing?

[cheesemoney]

I brewed a PB & Jelly sandwich beer that had a bready base of Golden Promise malt. It seemed to take waaaaaay to much vodka to get the PB2 to mix properly. I added it to the secondary and the vodka was definitely present.

I only want to add this to secondary in order to maximize flavor so I'm not considering adding to the mash, boil, or primary.

Possible solutions:
1) use 50% vodka, 50% water--cuts vodka in half, imparting less taste, still allows me to mix things up. Would this still kill the bugs?
2) pasteurize at 150 degrees for 30 minutes in distilled water, maybe this will do enough to kill bugs but preserve aroma?
3) bring to quick boil, cut flame immediately after hitting boiling point.

I'm tempted to roll with option 2, 150 degree pasteurization, as I hope it will preserve the most aroma. Thoughts?

 

[broadbill]

scrap the whole vodka, PB combo altogether and use powdered PB:

http://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/drew/ingredients-pb2

 

[Chadzilla]

why not just toss it into secondary and just let the beer mix it in? I don't think you would contract any wild yeast and stuff because it wouldn't have any sugars present because the last yeast already powered through it or am I mistaken? I have been reading up on this PB stuff which i'll be using in a batch to come and that's what I would do. Some posts were saying to use a couple jars to just because one jar was hardly noticeable.

 

[humerus]

just ordered a Presto 23 qt pressure canner off Amazon...gonna autoclave all sorts of random things to sterilize and put in my secondary for different flavors...definitely beats soaking in vodka

 

[cheesemoney]

scrap the whole vodka, PB combo altogether and use powdered PB:

http://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/drew/ingredients-pb2

I appreciate your response, but I mention in the title and original post that I was brewing with PB2. Don't feel like de-fatting peanuts myself. My question has to do with the best way to sterilize the bugs on PB 2 prior to adding it to the secondary. Seemed to take WAAAAAAAYYY to much vodka in order to make the PB2 soluble. Definitely imparted a strong alcohol taste that I don't want to repeat. Hence my question about using 1/2 vodka 1/2 water or heating it on the stovetop at less than boiling temperatures for 1/2 hour or so (maybe a crockpot w/ distilled water on low).

 

[cheesemoney]

why not just toss it into secondary and just let the beer mix it in? I don't think you would contract any wild yeast and stuff because it wouldn't have any sugars present because the last yeast already powered through it or am I mistaken? I have been reading up on this PB stuff which i'll be using in a batch to come and that's what I would do. Some posts were saying to use a couple jars to just because one jar was hardly noticeable.

1) PB2 has sugar in it as an ingredient. There are other powdered peanut butters that do not--however, this is still a bad, bad idea. You need more than a couple of small jars (2 lbs was adequate for me) and you can easily buy 1lb or 2lb bulk powdered pb online.
2) you definitely want to kill whatever bugs are on the powdered peanut butter before adding to secondary. Not to do so is a huuuuuuuge gamble.

just ordered a Presto 23 qt pressure canner off Amazon...gonna autoclave all sorts of random things to sterilize and put in my secondary for different flavors...definitely beats soaking in vodka

This sounds interesting. I'm wondering if this will still seal in the flavor/aroma or if it will change things. I've considered canning wort but never something like additives.

 

[ten80]

1)you definitely want to kill whatever bugs are on the powdered peanut butter before adding to secondary. Not to do so is a huuuuuuuge gamble.

The bacterial count in a processed (likely cooked to some extent) and dried food is going to be incredibly low. We're not talking fresh peanuts here. Add PB2 near the end of primary fermentation when the yeast activity is just starting to taper off. This way the CO2 produced, alcohol present, and low(er) pH should inhibit bacterial growth fairly effectively. I have had success with this method when adding un-processed berries and fruit, so PB2 should be AOK. Transfer to secondary and crash-cool for clarifying, if necessary.

This sounds interesting. I'm wondering if this will still seal in the flavor/aroma or if it will change things. I've considered canning wort but never something like additives.

Pressure cooking will always take the "fresh" flavor out of foods and slightly dull the tastes. I can salmon and fruit juice regularly. On the plus side, the cooking should cause any proteins in the PB2 to coagulate and settle out of solution.

I think a simpler solution would be to boil PB2 in a measuring cup for 1 minute in the microwave. Be sure to boil on low power so you do not cause a peanut butter volcano. Flavor loss should be minimal and the PB2 will be sufficiently sanitized to add to a nearly finished fermentation.

 

[TooDogly]

PB2 is sold at room temperature right? The in all likleyhood it is pasteurized by the manufacturer to make it shelf stable, or there is enough added salt to act as a preservative. There should be no need to do anything to sterilize it before adding to secondary.

Regardless, if your beer has a high enough ABV (5-6%) after initial fermentation is complete and you have transferred to secondary, that will be enough of a hostile environment to kill any traces of bacteria that may or may not be present in the PB2. Any wild yeasts will be drowned out by the massive amount of yeast that is already fermenting your beer.

Basically, you have nothing to worry about, just add the PB2 to some sterile water to mix, and then add directly to secondary and mix again.

 

[ten80]

PB2 is sold at room temperature right? The in all likleyhood it is pasteurized by the manufacturer to make it shelf stable, or there is enough added salt to act as a preservative. There should be no need to do anything to sterilize it before adding to secondary.

Not exactly. The amount of salt or sugar required to preserve food is actually very high because molds and fungi can grow in solutions with very high solute concentrations. Bacteria and yeast are much less hardy in these conditions.

What really keeps PB2 and any dry food from fermenting is the fact that the product is dried to a level that would prevent any microorganism from growing. Surviving, yes, perhaps in a dormant state, but certainly not growing unless moisture is added.

According to the manufacturer, PB2 contains only roasted peanuts, sugar, and salt.

 

[Chadzilla]

Has anyone threw it in second fermentation without doing any sanitation techniques? Im sure someone would have notes on it. I really think its fine to toss it in, especially if you are doing a dry hop on top of that to. I will post on my results when I use it with this method.

 

[elerten]

We added some to the mash and the rest to the boil tasted great. Got some of that roasted peanut flavor from the mash side additions.

 

[atom]

Has anyone threw it in second fermentation without doing any sanitation techniques? Im sure someone would have notes on it. I really think its fine to toss it in, especially if you are doing a dry hop on top of that to. I will post on my results when I use it with this method.

yes, a few times. i've found no need to sanitize pb2.

 

[Jaybird]

I appreciate your response, but I mention in the title and original post that I was brewing with PB2. Don't feel like de-fatting peanuts myself. My question has to do with the best way to sterilize the bugs on PB 2 prior to adding it to the secondary. Seemed to take WAAAAAAAYYY to much vodka in order to make the PB2 soluble. Definitely imparted a strong alcohol taste that I don't want to repeat. Hence my question about using 1/2 vodka 1/2 water or heating it on the stovetop at less than boiling temperatures for 1/2 hour or so (maybe a crockpot w/ distilled water on low).

I think he was suggesting buying Powered Peanut Butter, not doing it yourself. Its available at most grocers. We have used it several times in beers and its amazing stuff.
As for the Peanut Butter you are doing, I would just add a little boiling water to loosen it up and go for it.

Cheers
Jay