Bad brew day- rethinking hobby

[dustinthompson85]

Wow, I like reading and researching brewing! But what a brew day. I think I ended up with like 2 gallons after 6 hours of work. How does this happen? I have the correct pre boil volume according to beer Smith. Super slurry from all the hops but that's ok, just disappointed in the yield. Gravity readings were right, it if you think about the volume something is off... just demotivated... maybe I need to back up to extract. Picture is of a 6.5 gallon fermenter. Finished about an hour ago.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

just demotivated...

I've been "there" (bad brew day, demotivated) a couple of times.

I realized there is a cycle to my brewing - brew "good stuff" (good brew day), gain confidence, brew beyond my skill level (bad brew day), fall back and brew a "good stuff" recipe (good brew day), regain confidence, brew beyond my skill level, ...

Every time through the cycle, the skills (and the beer) get better.

And some of my "good stuff" recipes are still extract-based recipes.

 

[dustinthompson85]

Thinking I need to step back to extract....

 

[IslandLizard]

Well, first you made beer, so even a bad day at brewing must be much better than a good day at work. Unless you work in a brewery, that is!
What you got in there looks like good beer, the trub will sink.

Don't step back, AG has to be mastered. Don't let it rule you.

Can you post the recipe, and if you jotted it down, the volume in your kettle right before the boil? If not, any volumes you used, mash, sparge etc. Maybe we can figure out what went wrong. How big is your kettle?

 

[BobBailey]

You need to set up an equipment profile that closely matches what gear you're using. Here's a link to a video that does a great job of telling you how this is done:
http://brulosophy.com/2014/08/04/beersmith-tutorial-equipment-profile-setup/

Once you have done this, keep good notes about the results and use them to fine tune the profile.

 

[dustinthompson85]

I bought beer Smith, maybe I need to post more about the setup and recipe. It was a BIAB.

 

[davidabcd]

Thinking I need to step back to extract....

Don't get too discouraged! Extract is pretty easy and gives one a win; but, if you can fix your error(s) with minor adjustments that's heartening, right?

 

[Dland]

I've been doing all grain since my third batch of beer years ago. Extract brewing is a nice primer, but all grain gets you into high quality beer that can be as good or better than good commercial brews.

I just dumped 30 gallons of crittered beer down the driveway this week because of failure in sanitation regime. That was the product of my last 3 full days off in the last 3 weeks. I'm going to brew tomorrow and not look back(except to remember my mistakes so as not to repeat).

By the way, I switched to larger batches as they do not take any more time than small ones, and with several batches practice, brew day gets a little shorter and a lot easier.

 

[Metalchef1]

I do a lot of "experimental" brewing... I have some failures.... Everyone has failures....

No reason to stop...

You may not have much there but if it's good when it's done who cares...

Better than having to trash a 6 gallon batch of wine (that was expensive to make) because of stupid mistakes...

 

[BobBailey]

I bought beer Smith, maybe I need to post more about the setup and recipe. It was a BIAB.

Buying Beersmith is a step in the right direction. If you haven't properly set up your equipment profile you still need to do that. Also, if you're doing BIAB, you should read this too: http://beersmith.com/blog/?s=BIAB. Beersmith cannot guess what you're doing. You need to tell it by entering data.

 

[Metalchef1]

And beersmith now does wine and mead as well....

 

[shetc]

Visit www.biabrewer.info. The folk there will be very happy to help with anything BIAB.

 

[dustinthompson85]

It looks like my mash efficiency was 64%. Low. I did a 90 min boil too.

 

[dustinthompson85]

Assuming I should back my dry hop plans way back since my volume is much lower than expected.

 

[micraftbeer]

As @IslandLizard said, post some recipe and volume details. If you hit your gravity, that's a success. Usually failure looks like being really low on your gravity. You said your pre-boil volume was right, and you hit your gravity. So to me, the only way that makes sense is if you had your recipe and volumes set up to make a 2.5 gallon batch.

 

[ba-brewer]

Wow, I like reading and researching brewing! But what a brew day. I think I ended up with like 2 gallons after 6 hours of work. How does this happen? I have the correct pre boil volume according to beer Smith. Super slurry from all the hops but that's ok, just disappointed in the yield. Gravity readings were right, it if you think about the volume something is off... just demotivated... maybe I need to back up to extract. Picture is of a 6.5 gallon fermenter. Finished about an hour ago. View attachment 585098

Like micraftbeer said things do not match up if your preboils volumes where right but your end volume was too low. ​

If you would like help trouble shooting your issue, we can help you get back on track for your next attempt.

Really don't need too much information for BIAB to get you pretty close, just your boil-off, Kettle trub loss/amount and do you just let the bag drip or wringe it out good.


we don't need the whole recipe, just your grainbill, Brewhouse efficiency setting and batch size along with previous items.

​

 

[brewing_clown]

I've been doing some full volume mashes with Beersmith, and there is a configuration change you definitely need to make if you are doing BIAB.

You have to check the "BIAB Mash with Full Volume Boil" check box for your mash setup, and put the correct boil volume in the box. If you don't, you'll probably end up with a smaller volume.

Also, in your equipment profile, make sure you have a realistic brewhouse efficiency.

If I'm sparging, I'll set it at 80%. For no sparge, about 65%.

Best of luck!

 

[eetu]

Was that supposed to be a 5gal batch? Seems very strange that you had correct pre-boil volume but ended up three gallons short. Is your boil off number correct in beersmith? For 90min boil it should be more than a gallon, closer to 1.5 even. If not sure, run a boil test and measure.

Trub loss. Many underestimate this and if you filter through a fine mesh into your fermentor, you'll lose even more. Biab also generates more trub than sparge method.

Cooling shrinkage. Batch volume is not boil volume minus boil-off minus trub loss. Water shrinks when it cools and your boil volume should be roughly 5% more than calculated above.

Knowing your equipment and getting some experience with these numbers should give you pretty close batch volumes.

Post your recipe and some numbers, I'm sure we can help and point out the issue. Next time you'll have more experience and succeed better.

 

[divrack]

I have a similar yield problem... I manage to get a full 10g into kegs but for some reason a couple weeks later they are pretty much empty?!!
I suspect trolls, possibly gnomes.

 

[dustinthompson85]

After I mashed I took a reading Andrew was at 1.063 I (after the temp adjustments in beer smith). I had right about 6.5 gals to boil for 90 mins. I tired to filter it through a fine strainer when transferring into the fermenter and it plugged up on my because of the sludge. (It was a dogfishhead 90 min clone so a lot of hops). Took a reading when putting it in the fermenter and got 1.080 (it was kind of sludgy, so not sure if it was accurate or not or of that matters).

Recipe Grains:
16 lbs of 2 row
1 lb. Of munich

I mashed (biab) with 7.75 gals on water and took about .5 gals and tried to "rinse" my grain bag since my first reading was below target (target was 1.076 and I landed at 1.063) the rinsing didnt appear to help.

Hops:
3.5 oz. Of hops divided up and added every 5 mins to the 90 min boil.

 

[dustinthompson85]

There is activity less than 24 hours later. Hopefully it's good activity and this just becomes a good tasting "small batch" and I can figure out what I did wrong.

 

[madscientist451]

Don't worry about "sludge". Just dump it all in. By the time its done fermenting, it will settle out. If your BIAB efficiency is low and you're not hitting your numbers, you can try to compensate by adding more grain, until you get more experience and figure out what the problem is. I always keep dry extract on hand in case I screw up and my gravity is really low. Haven't had to do that in a few years, but I always keep some around anyway.
Commercial breweries use a centrifuge to get all the wort out of beer with a lot of hops, but you don't have to worry about that.
7.75 gallons of water for a 5 gallon batch doesn't seem like enough to me, but you'll have to figure out for yourself how your equipment works and how much water is the correct amount.

 

[Bobby_M]

6.5 is nowhere near enough for a 90min boil. You are just learning that your boil off is higher. And that hoppier beers soak up wort. Either back off on your boil vigor or start with an extra gallon of water. If I were making that recipe, my starting water would be 8.5 gallons and after squeezing, the preboil volume would be 7.75

 

[Bobby_M]

Oh, and stop straining the wort.

 

[mongoose33]

Is there anyone in your area who does all-grain who would allow you to watch a brew day? I suspect you'd find a few things they're doing that you're not, or vice versa.

 

[dustinthompson85]

Is there anyone in your area who does all-grain who would allow you to watch a brew day? I suspect you'd find a few things they're doing that you're not, or vice versa.

The county fair in my area had to entrants for home brewing, me and me one other guy... lol

 

[dustinthompson85]

I took the "total water needed" field in brew smith which was 7.72 gal as what I needed to mash with. Now I see a "mash volume needed" at 9.05 gal, did I really just miss read this? Or is that the size of the tun? My brewhouse is set up at 72% efficiency which I think was the default.

 

[brew703]

I am a BIAB brewer. I brew 5.75 gal batches (into fermenter), boil for 60 min and I start with 8.5 gal of water. You were way off on your water. I also don't use Beersmith for water profile. I find it under estimates the quantity I need. Even when i match what I have for the Priceless calculator Beersmith is about 1 gal short.
Try Priceless Brewing's calculator. I find it's the best.
With my system, I brew on a propane burner, have a 10gal kettle. My boil off is 1 gal/hr. So for a 90 min boil you will probably have at least 1.5 gal boil off.

With 2 gal, that sucka might be really hoppy. You might want to re-evaluate your dry hops. After about 10 days taste and see if it's something you can live with as for as bitterness. Maybe you can boil a couple gallons of water and add to your fermenter once the water has cooled. That would drop your FG and would probably mellow out the hoppiness if it's too much.

 

[Metalchef1]

I am a BIAB brewer. I brew 5.75 gal batches (into fermenter), boil for 60 min and I start with 8.5 gal of water. You were way off on your water. I also don't use Beersmith for water profile. I find it under estimates the quantity I need. Even when i match what I have for the Priceless calculator Beersmith is about 1 gal short.
Try Priceless Brewing's calculator. I find it's the best.
With my system, I brew on a propane burner, have a 10gal kettle. My boil off is 1 gal/hr. So for a 90 min boil you will probably have at least 1.5 gal boil off.

With 2 gal, that sucka might be really hoppy. You might want to re-evaluate your dry hops. After about 10 days taste and see if it's something you can live with as for as bitterness. Maybe you can boil a couple gallons of water and add to your fermenter once the water has cooled. That would drop your FG and would probably mellow out the hoppiness if it's too much.

Instead of adding water what about adding a beer? Make a giant 1.030 starter, super low hops just to sterilize... , pitch the same yeast and during high krausen transfer it on top of the beer so far.... Light profile beer seems like it would be better for blending and balance than water?

 

[brew703]

Instead of adding water what about adding a beer? Make a giant 1.030 starter, super low hops just to sterilize... , pitch the same yeast and during high krausen transfer it on top of the beer so far.... Light profile beer seems like it would be better for blending and balance than water?

I guess that would work. Not sure what the OG was supposed to be and depending on which yeast was used I would think this beer will finish on the high side thus boiling and adding water to get close to what it was supposed to be might be the easiest option. Not saying brewing a "small" beer wouldn't work. Never did it before.

 

[Metalchef1]

I guess that would work. Not sure what the OG was supposed to be and depending on which yeast was used I would think this beer will finish on the high side thus boiling and adding water to get close to what it was supposed to be might be the easiest option. Not saying brewing a "small" beer wouldn't work. Never did it before.

I haven't either... I'd be curious to the outcome...

 

[Metalchef1]

I was kind of thinking the yeast may have conversion issues due to the gravity of what was basically thin extract? it's currently working on.
The small beer while repitching may help it finish?

 

[kh54s10]

You need to look at that more carefully. It says that you need 9.05 gallons for the mash and your boil of is only showing .75 gallons. You are certainly going to boil off way more than that in 90 minutes. I don't know why it says you only need 7.75 gallons.

Go to the videos portion of Beersmith and look at all of them. Beersmith is a tool that you have to use properly for it to work well.

I think you might be boiling too vigorously also. Seems like you boiled off about 4 gallons in 90 minutes.

 

[dustinthompson85]

I didnt know you could boil too vigorously. I kept it a rolling bubbling... is that too much?

 

[MaxStout]

You have just graduated into the world of all-grain. Congrats, you made a beer! Don't be too hard on yourself--give yourself credit for what you did accomplish. Ferment that beer, package it, and you might be surprised. Meanwhile, get back to work on planning the next one. It WILL get better. Dial in those volumes, based on your gear. And take good notes to review later. Don't give up.

 

[kh54s10]

I didnt know you could boil too vigorously. I kept it a rolling bubbling... is that too much?

Rolling is enough. If it looks like Niagara Falls that is too much. Unless you account for the amount of loss to evaporation. You need to determine your boil off rate to get an accurate amount. And this needs to be accounted for in any recipe software.

 

[dustinthompson85]

Oh, and stop straining the wort.

So you are saying to dump it all in the fermenter, hop gunk and all?

 

[kh54s10]

I drain through a ball valve. I bag my hops. I open the valve and let it pour into the fermenter until at the level of the valve. I usually need a little more in the fermenter so I tip the kettle to drain more. I leave the last couple cups of the thickest in the kettle. Everything transferred will settle after fermentation is done.

 

[dustinthompson85]

Does bagging pellet hops do anything or is that for whole leaf only.

 

[kh54s10]

I use paint strainer bags to contain pellet hops. A 5 gallon one clipped to the lip of my kettle during the boil. Open and dump in the next addition. I swirl the bag often to make sure the wort is circulating through. I bag dry hops, one ounce to a 1 gallon paint strainer bag and just drop them into the fermenter (carefully, as little splashing as possible.) I don't weight them down or anything. I just push them under the surface with a sanitized spoon, again move them around to make sure all the hops get to the beer.