Bacterias old and new...

[technicoloraudio]

I went to pick up some cultures from my LHBS and I snagged a pack of Wyeast Lambic Blend and and Roesalare. I just grabbed them and headed for the register and it wasn't until I got there that I noticed the dates were quite old. The Roesalare was nearly 12 months and the Lambic Blend was about 7 months old.
I got them both for free and figured I'd at least try and start them up. I did a 1 L starter at 1.020 and pitched both packs, let it hang for 12 hours and shook it up a bit, let it roll for another day.
There was no krausen, nor sign of real activity, but after the second shake, the yeast stayed suspended and I noticed a sour smell coming from under the foil.
Had to head to the other LHBS today and picked up a packet of Wyeast Pediococcus. My starter smelled sour and had a bit of a fizz to it. I added the pedio and dumped it into the carboy of beer that had previously tasted strongly of almonds.
I felt good about the whole thing, then wondered if I screwed the whole thing with all sorts of bacteria and that the fizziness was caused by acetobacteria and have been silently wondering since.
Any thoughts?


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[W0GWT]

I went to pick up some cultures from my LHBS and I snagged a pack of Wyeast Lambic Blend and and Roesalare. I just grabbed them and headed for the register and it wasn't until I got there that I noticed the dates were quite old. The Roesalare was nearly 12 months and the Lambic Blend was about 7 months old.
I got them both for free and figured I'd at least try and start them up. I did a 1 L starter at 1.020 and pitched both packs, let it hang for 12 hours and shook it up a bit, let it roll for another day.
There was no krausen, nor sign of real activity, but after the second shake, the yeast stayed suspended and I noticed a sour smell coming from under the foil.
Had to head to the other LHBS today and picked up a packet of Wyeast Pediococcus. My starter smelled sour and had a bit of a fizz to it. I added the pedio and dumped it into the carboy of beer that had previously tasted strongly of almonds.
I felt good about the whole thing, then wondered if I screwed the whole thing with all sorts of bacteria and that the fizziness was caused by acetobacteria and have been silently wondering since.
Any thoughts?


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Probably not really repeatable, but otherwise fine. You'll have to wait some time and see how it turns out before you deem it a failure.

 

[technicoloraudio]

How do you mean not repeatable?


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[W0GWT]

How do you mean not repeatable?


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Since the packs were old and all pitched together, it would be hard to be able to figure out the relative concentration of each strain or if they are all viable. It's unlikely that you'll be in a position to have the same mix of old smack packs in the future.

 

[technicoloraudio]

Aahh. Yes. This is true. The 1L starter had taken on sour aroma and taste which led me to believe that the old cultures still had some life to them.

Would the lactobacillus cause the fizziness, perhaps if it were a heterofermentative strain? That was the part I thought to be most strange.


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[W0GWT]

Aahh. Yes. This is true. The 1L starter had taken on sour aroma and taste which led me to believe that the old cultures still had some life to them.

Would the lactobacillus cause the fizziness, perhaps if it were a heterofermentative strain? That was the part I thought to be most strange.


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They may well have some life left. My point was that the concentration of each strain is even more difficult to predict than normal. If one is more viable than the other, you'd obviously get more character from it. If you get an amazing beer, it may be very hard to make it again.

Lactobacillus has several strains. Hard to pinpoint. Roeselare itself has lactobacillus, as does the lambic blend.

 

[technicoloraudio]

I know it's a lot of lacto and since primary fermentation was over, I was less concerned about the sacc strains, since the starter wort had soured I figured the lacto was active anthem added the pedio.

I know the concentrations would be hard to replicate, if the beer comes out awesome, I will probably drop a fresh oak spiral for a week or so and try and harvest the bacteria/Brett bugs for another batch.

So far in all of my brews I haven't made the same batch twice, so replication has never been my priority. However, this particular batch came out pretty off from the start (same beer from my "Breaking down Benzaldehyde" thread) and the hefty bacteria pitch is all being done in hopes that it will break down the almond flavors prevalent in the beer.

Half the batch had gotten the store bought bacteria pitch, the other half has gotten lots of bottle dregs. It it works out, great, if not: beer pickles for everyone!!


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