Back to BIAB!

[Gavin C]

So I should be brewing to maximize Mirth and Flavor extraction? Sounds like good advice to me!

Yes, indeed you should. An all-too-often overlooked factor in world altering brewing discussions like this one.

Mirth is usually represented by a lower case "m"

Simply input your usual variables , (g, c and k) relating to your brew-day and solve for m

 

[slym2none]

Now we are adding a bit of whimsy to our brew, I see...

 

[Gavin C]

Now we are adding a bit of whimsy to our brew, I see...

The addition of whimsy is a whole other equation.

probably about time this thread was kicked over to the brew-science forum. Things just got hardcore!!

 

[iBrewR]

The addition of whimsy is a whole other equation.

In my brewhouse whimsy is a constant.

 

[iijakii]

Whimsy extraction is a good thing to achieve, but can be quite difficult for many new brewers. Too few homebrews and you've not yet activated the whimsy enzymes, but too many and you go out of the whimsy range and into full-on shenanigans.

 

[slym2none]

I have yet to have a boilover into shenanigans, but I definitely try and get both whimsy and mirth into my brews. I definitely get mirth whenever I drink while brewing.

Probably could get greater mirth and some whimsy had I a brew partner...

*lol*

 

[TennBrewer]

I've used the BIAB method several times and have always had decent results and the cleanup was super easy. Recently, I acquired three kegs and turned them into keggles and started making 10G batches while the bag remained unused. Then I got an idea that why not use the bag in the mash tun to hold the grains. It sits on top of the false bottom and drain tube, the sparge tube still sprinkles over the bag and when I'm done sparging, I just pull the bag and viola! the mash tun is free from grain. Has worked pretty darn well the last few batches and my mash efficiency is over 80%.

 

[jekeane]

But both of you are comparing no-sparge to sparging. I have no doubt that BIAB is likely to be faster in any case, but I don't think it will be a whole lot when compared to a no-sparge brew in a 2-3 vessel system.

My one experience with no sparge in the kettle I got terrible efficiency in the neighborhood of 58-60% if I remember correctly. With biab I have never been below average 82%. Again I biab for below 5g batches so my guess is that would play into my numbers being higher. Clean up is still longer but as I mash for 90 m biab it may be a wash.

I usually add 2 parts whimsy to one part tomfoolery to most of my brew days.

 

[pretzelb]

Yes, indeed you should. An all-too-often overlooked factor in world altering brewing discussions like this one.

Mirth is usually represented by a lower case "m"

Simply input your usual variables , (g, c and k) relating to your brew-day and solve for m

Look, if you're going to derail the topic then at least provide needed details. Before we can solve the equation for maximum fun efficiency we need to know the mirth multiplier for all the equipment parts. Which has the higher multiplier the MT or the BK? What happens to the mirth multiplier when vessels are added? How about subtracted? What about the soft numbers for grain and hop bags? How do they stack up against the equivalent hard numbers for SS grain baskets or SS hop spiders? Is mirth affected by gravity to the point where pumps get a negative mirth multiplier?

My future mirth brew system needs these numbers!

 

[ejluttmann]

I started out doing 10g biab brews and have moved to a two vessel no-sparge with a single pump. For me, I just like the simplicity of doing no-sparge brews. I'm all electric with a boil kettle and Rims for the mash kettle. I do 10-15 gallon batches now. I moved to a two vessel primarily because 10 gallons was just getting too much of a pain to lift by myself. I still use a biab bag in the mash kettle because it keeps the wart clean and helps makes it easier to clean up the mash kettle. Plus I will typically do back to back brews by heating up water in the boil kettle while while waiting for first mash to complete and transfer to a cooler (3rd vessel?), then transfer that water in the cooler into mash kettle when doing back to back brews. It saves me quite a bit of time with minimal extra effort.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1443791721.587438.jpg

 

[jimmykx250]

I started out doing 10g biab brews and have moved to a two vessel no-sparge with a single pump. For me, I just like the simplicity of doing no-sparge brews. I'm all electric with a boil kettle and Rims for the mash kettle. I do 10-15 gallon batches now. I moved to a two vessel primarily because 10 gallons was just getting too much of a pain to lift by myself. I still use a biab bag in the mash kettle because it keeps the wart clean and helps makes it easier to clean up the mash kettle. Plus I will typically do back to back brews by heating up water in the boil kettle while while waiting for first mash to complete and transfer to a cooler (3rd vessel?), then transfer that water in the cooler into mash kettle when doing back to back brews. It saves me quite a bit of time with minimal extra effort.

View attachment 306968

My god that looks like a sweet set up. How much do you have in it?
Nice work!

 

[djt17]

That makes my head hurt!

 

[Homercidal]

I'm not sure why this seems to be a hot topic. It's just a chat about general characteristics. For example, your point on cleaning during a 3v brew can be debated depending on the recipe requirements. But in general you are correct so it's not really worth the debate to try and disprove your point, similar to the 3v no sparge brewer.

Cheers.

I don't consider this debating. Just informing people that that there are multitudes of options for any of the methods used to brew beer.

I think it's misinforming to make blanket statements about a particular method, such as saying you can save 1-2 hours by doing BIAB vs 3V brewing.

Yes, it might, but only if there were certain assumptions on both sides.

If you consider the options for all methods, and choose wisely, you will not get that much time savings.

I understand that time flows differently for everyone. Some people don't mind spending 5-6 hours on a brewday. Others may only brew the way they learned and never even consider shaving an hour and they're happy. Some people have kids or other responsibilities and really want to shorten the day so that they can brew and also take care of their family or work needs.

I don't think I've stated that any one method is better than another. It's good to know as much about all of the options so you can choose which method is best for you.

 

[pretzelb]

I don't consider this debating. Just informing people that that there are multitudes of options for any of the methods used to brew beer.

I think it's misinforming to make blanket statements about a particular method, such as saying you can save 1-2 hours by doing BIAB vs 3V brewing.

Yes, it might, but only if there were certain assumptions on both sides.

OK, the consider it this way. If someone posts how they enjoy their method or system because it saves time, do you think they need to also include all the assumptions that go into those time savings? And keep doing that with each post that mentions time savings? To me that would be very tiresome.

Instead IMHO it just seems easier to post your thoughts and then let others ask a question if they can't see how it's possible. Not only did it save time by cutting down on excessive descriptive assumptions, it keeps things focused. If it's really a topic that needs to be explained then just open a thread for it like "Does biab really save time" and let that serve as the educational tool.

Or just take a step back and ask what might really cause damage due to misinformation. Reading random posts saying that a person saves time with their biab method is about as damaging as a person praising a kettle over a cooler for a MT. Even if the reader is persuaded by the comment they aren't likely to do much about it until they do more research. In the case of biab it's more so since biab is more of a multi option method than a simple choice of equipment for a piece of a system like the MT.

Imho the potential to misinform is low compared to the high potential to derail. I think anytime someone is corrected the derail potential goes up. Separate dedicated posts on the topic are much more effective in those situations. Shrug. Cheers.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

OK, the consider it this way. If someone posts how they enjoy their method or system because it saves time, do you think they need to also include all the assumptions that go into those time savings? And keep doing that with each post that mentions time savings? To me that would be very tiresome.

Instead IMHO it just seems easier to post your thoughts and then let others ask a question if they can't see how it's possible. Not only did it save time by cutting down on excessive descriptive assumptions, it keeps things focused. If it's really a topic that needs to be explained then just open a thread for it like "Does biab really save time" and let that serve as the educational tool.

Or just take a step back and ask what might really cause damage due to misinformation. Reading random posts saying that a person saves time with their biab method is about as damaging as a person praising a kettle over a cooler for a MT. Even if the reader is persuaded by the comment they aren't likely to do much about it until they do more research. In the case of biab it's more so since biab is more of a multi option method than a simple choice of equipment for a piece of a system like the MT.

Imho the potential to misinform is low compared to the high potential to derail. I think anytime someone is corrected the derail potential goes up. Separate dedicated posts on the topic are much more effective in those situations. Shrug. Cheers.

Disagree with some of that. I also would find it tiresome to include all assumptions, as that's rather tiresome. However I think it's more important for the replier to be courteous and ask why/how rather than just refute it and de-rail but that's just me YMMV.

 

[Homercidal]

It's a "discussion" forum, so I'm not going to be goaded into defending my decision to clarify WHY some people will save time brewing BIAB style. I think most people here can easily follow along, and offering alternative methods that perform similarly helps educate and allows people to make up their own mind about which is right for them.

Damn, I think I was just goaded into defending my posts!

 

[kh54s10]

OK, the consider it this way. If someone posts how they enjoy their method or system because it saves time, do you think they need to also include all the assumptions that go into those time savings? And keep doing that with each post that mentions time savings? To me that would be very tiresome.

Instead IMHO it just seems easier to post your thoughts and then let others ask a question if they can't see how it's possible. Not only did it save time by cutting down on excessive descriptive assumptions, it keeps things focused. If it's really a topic that needs to be explained then just open a thread for it like "Does biab really save time" and let that serve as the educational tool.

Or just take a step back and ask what might really cause damage due to misinformation. Reading random posts saying that a person saves time with their biab method is about as damaging as a person praising a kettle over a cooler for a MT. Even if the reader is persuaded by the comment they aren't likely to do much about it until they do more research. In the case of biab it's more so since biab is more of a multi option method than a simple choice of equipment for a piece of a system like the MT.

Imho the potential to misinform is low compared to the high potential to derail. I think anytime someone is corrected the derail potential goes up. Separate dedicated posts on the topic are much more effective in those situations. Shrug. Cheers.

Thanks for totally derailing this thread!!!!

 

[iBrewR]

I think anytime someone is corrected the derail potential goes up.

I think that anytime someone is corrected they are given the opportunity to learn something new. It may work for them, it may not, but that’s what a forum is about. The exchange of ideas. If it's too redundant or boring for you, step away.

A thread is derailed by petty bickering that is not related to the topic.

With this in mind, goading is the inverse reciprocal of mirth and will have to be added to the equation.

 

[Mirilis]

ive brewed with many methods over the years and for me at this point I prefer BIAB. It makes a simpler brew day (and i still try to find ways to make it complex ). Mostly I like it now because ive dialed in my process.. and really it doesn't matter what method to brew you use.. what matters is that you have confidence in your method.. after you get confident you'll start finding ways to save time.

 

[ejluttmann]

My god that looks like a sweet set up. How much do you have in it?

Nice work!

I try not to think about it [emoji15] ... I've upgraded over time (and still doing so), but probably have around $1500 invested. I enjoy the projects and most upgrades have been to just make the brewing day more relaxing, not necessarily better beer. I'll typically brew 20 gallons during a 6-7 hour brew day.

 

[Chris_Primavera]

BIAB Rules
3V Drools
Q.E.D.

 

[Johow]

I have not brewed a single beer yet, though all three of my sons have, currently I'm travelling around the country tasting beers from here and there and plan to brew my first batch when I return home in November. I think brew in a bag sounds like a great place to start. Actually I have brewed at a brew bar sort of thing which will serve as my extract brew so I feel ready to go on and do a BIAB all grain batch. I'll keep ya posted....

 

[chisena]

I do eBIAB with continuous recirculation during the mash. 5G in 3.5 hours max. Quality is the same as it ever was on my old 3V. End of story for me. I love it and all my brew buddies are heading in the same direction...

 

[doug293cz]

I have not brewed a single beer yet, though all three of my sons have, currently I'm travelling around the country tasting beers from here and there and plan to brew my first batch when I return home in November. I think brew in a bag sounds like a great place to start. Actually I have brewed at a brew bar sort of thing which will serve as my extract brew so I feel ready to go on and do a BIAB all grain batch. I'll keep ya posted....

BAIB's a great way to start all grain. Minimal equipment invested, and if you decide you don't like the method, you can still use all your equipment (except maybe the bag) when you move on. No downside risk.

Brew on

 

[pretzelb]

Disagree with some of that. I also would find it tiresome to include all assumptions, as that's rather tiresome. However I think it's more important for the replier to be courteous and ask why/how rather than just refute it and de-rail but that's just me YMMV.

If I understand you correctly, I think we are in total agreement. Instead of trying stop some perceived opinion that might affect readers to the wrong conclusion, just politely ask for details on the point that is being debated.

 

[balrog]

In my brewhouse whimsy is a constant.

But mirth, which some have conjectured is merely the time derivative of a linear combination of jocularity and caprice, can never exceed the speed of humor. But usually only when cat videos are concerned.

 

[iBrewR]

Just reading posts by RM-MN about short mash times (30 minute) with a fine crush BIAB. That would get you close to that 1 hour savings.

I'll eat crow. :cross:

 

[chisena]

Just reading posts by RM-MN about short mash times (30 minute) with a fine crush BIAB. That would get you close to that 1 hour savings.



I'll eat crow. :cross:

You often don't need to mash for longer than 20-30 minutes with today's grain products, depending on your grain bill.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

You often don't need to mash for longer than 20-30 minutes with today's grain products, depending on your grain bill.

Yup, I've been taking gravity readings every 5 minutes for the past 4-5 brew sessions and have been getting a SG maxes out between 25-35 minutes. I often end my mash around 45 minutes now, just to make sure it's done.

 

[Magnus314]

I settled on a 30 minute mash and a small pour-over sparge as the "sweet spot" for ease vs. time and grain.

On my 3 vessel system with a double batch sparge I get 86% efficiency, consistently.

BIAB with a batch sparge I get 90% efficiency (I believe it's because there's ZERO dead space loss...).

Single vessel BIAB with a small (3 gals or less) pour-over sparge, I get 84%.

Dial it in (either method) and let 'er rip.

My opinion? BIAB is way faster and easier to do, and MUCH easier to clean. Dumping out hot wet grain from the mash tun is a PITA compared to dumping the bag and dunking it or hosing it off.

But the difference is minor, time wise. Just easier.

Again, my opinion, but I still have the 3V and have done 2v and BIAB and PM and extract... BIAB is easiest and fastest of all the above.