awesome sparge arm ideas only

[sanch]

i am building my rig and most every thing is thought out, yet i have not given much thought to the sparge arm. i am starting to see more adj sparge arms i was planing on an arm with a shower head or sprinkler that swung over the top of the keggel and away to ad grain and clean and such. does the height from the grain bed have any adverse effects. i have never brewed ag so any info would be appreciated.

 

[GearBeer]

How about the newest and strangest? Check out The Pol's design. He uses Loc-Line, a flexible, rigid coolant hose, to set the height. It doesn't sprinkle, but he makes a pretty good case for that not being necessary.

 

[The Pol]

How about the newest and strangest? Check out The Pol's design. He uses Loc-Line, a flexible, rigid coolant hose, to set the height. It doesn't sprinkle, but he makes a pretty good case for that not being necessary.

Sprinkling is counter productive. Arent you just sprinkling water, on top of water? Arent you then rapidy cooling your sparge water by breaking it up into small droplets and increasing the surface area?

Id use a 1/2" ID line, using LocLine so that it is infinitely adjustable, and be done with it. You will retain A LOT more heat in your sparge water, and thusly in your grain bed.

It isnt too new or strange though, the Sabco BrewMagic uses a simple 1/2" line to sparge too, though not LocLine.

Here is it way back when I first built it...

 

[harley03]

I second Pol's loc-line design. That's what I am going to be using on my single tier system. I chose this design because I will be making 5 and 10 gallon batches on the same system.

Check it out here:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/return-sparge-manifold-options-142136/

 

[Ohio-Ed]

Pol... Quick question. Are there any ill effects from the cover material on the locline?
I'm sure you checked it out, so I'm just askin before someone else does

 

[The Pol]

When I went to a closed wort cooling system with kettle recirc. I also used it for the kettle return line... then I used it for my keggle pickup tube so that I can pull from the side when I drain the kettle, then reposition it to the center of the kettle for CIP, so that I can pump all the junk from the kettle.

 

[The Pol]

Pol... Quick question. Are there any ill effects from the cover material on the locline?
I'm sure you checked it out, so I'm just askin before someone else does

I havent noticed any. I have been using it for quite some time as well. When I have boiled it to soften it (really doesnt soften much, but just enough) so that I can snap the sections together, it does not throw off the vapors that the reinforced vinyl tubing does that so many people find acceptable.

 

[sanch]

sweet thats way less work than what i had in mind. i have a tendancy to over engeneer that seems like it will work great. can any body come up with any cons to nixing the sprinkler.

 

[sanch]

would the flexy bendy stuff support a small shower head ??

 

[The Pol]

would the flexy bendy stuff support a small shower head ??

Why would you do that

 

[Bobby_M]

An obsession with clean mash.

 

[The Pol]

An obsession with clean mash.

Ha ha ha, okay, that was funny

 

[ILOVEBEER]

Hey guys....I would like to know why you think sprinkling water on water is a stupid idea and so 1970's?

I know SABCO uses a hose and actually swirls the surface water...is this a better approach?

Is it any better than building a copper manifold that rains water down on the grain bed?

I'd like to know your thoughts on this....I brew tomorrow for the first time and have the loc-line...I could go either way.

Thanks
Joe

 

[The Pol]

It is extra equipment, with no net gain. You have a lid on your MLT, for someone who does not, sprinkling water will only cool the sparge water before it even hits the grain bed.

Basically, you gain nothing at all by sprinkling water on water. This is why many people simply use the 1/2" ID lines to introduce sparge water to the water above the grain bed.

In my case, it also allowed me to use the exact same line for HERMS recirc. as I use for fly sparging.

It just seems to be extra equipment, extra building, extra complexity... for no net gain, which to me spells "not a good investment".

If there was a point to doing it, Id say do it, but there is no point at all. I mean, it is like hopping on one foot during the length of the boil... sure you can do it, but why?

 

[Bjornbrewer]

hey Pol, where did you get the Loc Line at?

 

[GearBeer]

McMaster

10095K12 LOC-LINE ANY-WHICH-WAY COOLANT HOSE, 1/2" ID, 13" LENGTH W/ CONNECTORS & ROUND NOZZLES

10095K45 1' OF 1/2" ID, LOC-LINE ANY-WHICH-WAY COOLANT HOSE

50785K94 MED-PRESSURE BRASS THRD PIPE FITTING, 1/2" PIPE SIZE, HEX COUPLING

Merchandise Amount: 19.43
Shipping Charge: 4.25
Invoice Total: $23.68

The top one comes with 3 or 4 different nozzles and two threaded attachments (I think 3/8" NPT and 1/2" NPT).

 

[Mirilis]

My sparge setup is pretty similar to Pol's concept. I have a QD drilled through the top of my keg, and then i have a weldless fitting with a 90 degree brass compression fitting on it. On the other end of the copression fitting is about 12 inches (roughly 1/4 of the circumference) of 3/8 id copper tubing. It works the same way as the Brutus 10 design.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

It is worth noting that Locline is only rated to 170º. Pol has used it in boiling conditions and is happy with the result. But just as a PSA, it is not rated for that use. I am squeemish about plastic so I try to stay well within rated temperatures.

 

[The Pol]

It is worth noting that Locline is only rated to 170º. Pol has used it in boiling conditions and is happy with the result. But just as a PSA, it is not rated for that use. I am squeemish about plastic so I try to stay well within rated temperatures.

We all have personal issues.

I think the use of LocLine for sparging falls within its "rated" temp.

I still have not heard anyone say what happens at 175F? It does become SLIGHTLY softer, and when I say slightly, I mean barely noticeable, at boiling temps.

I have a hard time swallowing that the temp. rating has anything to do with suitability for food products, as this is coolant line, and was never even intended for food production. Doubt they would rate it on food safe temps., more likely rated on its ability to maintain rigidity and its position above a work piece. Being that, that IS its intended use.

 

[Bjornbrewer]

Thanks Kyle!

a lot of tubing has a temp rating at a working PSI...most can handle much higher temps when not under pressure.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

LocLine is rated food safe and on their old website they had a very useful FAQs section where they stated it was food safe to that 170º rating. I realize that safeguards are built into those ratings, I just thought it should be said so people can make their own educated decisions.

Locline is an extremely versatile product with literally thousands of industry applications including the food industry. I did not mean to scare anyone or anything, I just wanted the facts out there. I will likely be using Locline on my own system for a sparge arm.

 

[The Pol]

Crap I am going to die

Though I was supposed to have been electrocuted long ago

 

[TXCrash]

For those squeamish about lockline I've seen a couple builds where the return is simply a piece of silicone hose which floats on the surface of the mash water.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Yes, food grade silicone is rated to 512º (or somesuch) and is autoclavable. This is what I currently use but am considering switching to Locline just because it looks so nice to use.

 

[ILOVEBEER]

"it is like hopping on one foot during the length of the boil... sure you can do it, but why?"

I don't know why but that is pretty damn funny!

I found that with my test run (wet), the PID kept temperatures at a steady rate and there really was no heat loss with the lids. Granted there is small loss when I poke my big melon in there to ck, but for the most part I think I will be ok. FYI...the sparge arm cost me 6.00 to make...not too bad.

I'll let you guys know how it worked out, I am brewing for the first time today.

Thanks

 

[uncia]

I've been thinking about using a spiral spray head for sparging. They sell them at McMaster.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Cool idea, but 6 gpm flow rate may be a problem. I run my sparge around .5 gpm.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Personally, I wanna rig my John Deer traveling tractor and have run a spiral pattern across the grain bed. But, with a minimum spray pattern of 15 feet I am definitely gonna need a bigger tun.

 

[sanch]

I have never brewed all grain so correct me if i am wrong but to my understanding during mash out the water level decreases in the mash tun and as it falls the water sprinkling over the top rinses the sugars out of the grain so if the water level always stay above the grain level whats the point in fly sparging.why not just batch sparge

 

[Sawdustguy]

I have never brewed all grain so correct me if i am wrong but to my understanding during mash out the water level decreases in the mash tun and as it falls the water sprinkling over the top rinses the sugars out of the grain so if the water level always stay above the grain level whats the point in fly sparging.why not just batch sparge

Look, you can do whatever you want to. The debate over batch vs fly sparging is a never ending battle. I suggest you read the threads so it is not rehashed here. IMHO Pol is right. It is so much easier to use Loop Lok or better yet, a simple piece of tubing rather than burning up your hard earned cash making some weird looking sparge contraption. Of course, the decision is yours.

 

[Jaybird]

Look, you can do whatever you want to. The debate over batch vs fly sparging is a never ending battle. I suggest you read the threads so it is not rehashed here. IMHO Pol is right. It is so much easier to use Loop Lok or better yet, a simple piece of tubing rather than burning up your hard earned cash making some weird looking sparge contraption. Of course, the decision is yours.

WOW relax bro. I think he was asking not telling.

 

[sanch]

so is what the pol is suggesting batch sparging? he called it fly sparging ? i dont care to rehash any age old debate i have read the threads and want to fly sparge am i misunderstanding the concept ? it just makes more sense to me to thinn out the sugar content then almost drain the mash tun and rinse any remaining sugars by sprinkleing water over the top with an open drain and just rinse it off, i will need to keep a small amount of liquid in the bottom so the pump wont run dry. that is the concept is it not?
the locline is a slick option and it would be easier than some of the other options but without a sprinkler it dosent do what i think it should. keep in mind that i have never don this before (the whole AG thing). I am just asking for any advice or input i can get.

 

[ILOVEBEER]

I made a copper sparge manifold for $6.00, drilled a s*itload of small holes and a 5/16" hole in each corner to alleviate any debris that got through....it worked great

 

[leboeuf]

Sanch, both batch and fly sparge methods are simply a rinse cycle.
To fly sparge you gently add water on top of the grain bed keeping a 1 or so inch of water on top of the grain while letting your mlt drain.
To batch sparge you dump all the rinse water in batches; you mix each batch of rinse water into the grain with a big spoon, let it settle, vorlauf and drain.
(just search these if that didn't make sense)

After you get a few batches under your belt you'll probably notice that the "sparge arm" is really not necessary. The grain bed will have an inch of water on top of it so it really doesn't matter how you keep delivering the new water as long as the delivery is gentle. I personally use a vinyl hose that I empty out onto a plastic (polypropylene) lid.
I'm pretty sure the sparge arm is a carry over from commercial breweries. They have 20 foot wide mash tuns so it's a slightly different story.

I really wouldn't get too caught up on a lot of the gear stuff you see on here..... All grain brewing truly is not at all difficult; it just takes a little more patience (and cooler or two and a big assed pot ).

 

[Sawdustguy]

WOW relax bro. I think he was asking not telling.

I'm cool...Just don't want to see another batch vs fly sparging debate.

 

[Sawdustguy]

I really wouldn't get too caught up on a lot of the gear stuff you see on here..... All grain brewing truly is not at all difficult; it just takes a little more patience (and cooler or two and a big assed pot ).

+1 When I first started not so long ago, being honest, I was taken in by all the gadgets and contraptions I saw. It didn't take long after reading these threads to realize that simple is best. If you are like me, Mr. Murphy is always lurking in my shadow. The way I look at it, the more I simplify things without comprimising, the less likely Mr. Murphy will sneak up and jab me in the a$$.

The other thing I learned very quickly when I was new to this, was to rely on the advice of the more experienced brewers and instead of focusing on the way I thought it should be done, I tried to understand why what they suggested worked. I have very few of my own ideas in my brewery. I am not afraid to say I stole almost all of them. It made building my brewery much easier because everything I incorporated into the brewery had been used and tested by thousands of brewers before me. I am not saying that I am against innovation but why waste time re-inventing the wheel?

 

[Jaybird]

I am not saying that I am against innovation but why waste time re-inventing the wheel?

Necessity is the mother of invention

 

[The Pol]

so is what the pol is suggesting batch sparging? he called it fly sparging ? i dont care to rehash any age old debate i have read the threads and want to fly sparge am i misunderstanding the concept ? it just makes more sense to me to thinn out the sugar content then almost drain the mash tun and rinse any remaining sugars by sprinkleing water over the top with an open drain and just rinse it off, i will need to keep a small amount of liquid in the bottom so the pump wont run dry. that is the concept is it not?
the locline is a slick option and it would be easier than some of the other options but without a sprinkler it dosent do what i think it should. keep in mind that i have never don this before (the whole AG thing). I am just asking for any advice or input i can get.

No, batch sparging means sparging in a "batch", then refilling the MLT, then draining the "batch".

Fly sparging means sparging on the "fly", meaning water going in while water is going out. Two totally different things... doesnt matter how you get the water IN while you are draining it OUT, it is still fly sparging.

 

[brewpal]

After trying many variations on sparge arm arrangements, I have come up with a system that works well for my rig. I use a simple diverter to keep the water from drilling a hole in the grain bed and keep a few inches of water over the grain. A short section of tubing holds it onto a barb centered over the grain.

I mash about 90 lbs of grain. About 4-5 gal of boiling water is adding toward the end of the mash to raise the temp a bit and thin it out.

Here is the kicker: On brew day I turn the gas water heater temporarily to max (about 150 deg) and deliver the water directly from it to the mash via a white RV hose. Simple to set up works well for my rig.

 

[mplutodh1]

I use a simple diverter to keep the water from drilling a hole in the grain bed and keep a few inches of water over the grain.

Where did you find that? Did a quick search on McMaster and no luck (although they don't carry everything, just damn near!)