Are home brewers a "threat" to commercial brewing?

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I almost wonder if that statement was tossed in by the journalist as it wasn't really backed up.
 
Everyone is interested in protecting their industry. That doesn't mean they are "against" homebrewing, but merely wish to keep what is, and should be, a private, non commercial hobby, from turning into a business with obvious financial advantages.

I'm all for being able to take your homebrew places. I'm all for handing out samples to interested individuals. I'm all for allowing a set amount of homebrew being made available for charity events. Heck, I'd even be open to allowing some amount of homebrew being sold in some other instances (As if the homebrewer would want to deal with the hassle and cost of following the associated paperwork and restrictions...). But, if I were a craft brewer and had to play with the government, I would NOT want everybody and their brother to start competing with me without comparable restrictions.

I think it's a bit early for them to actually worry about homebrewers intruding on their market. If I'm not wrong, most craft brewers started out as homebrewers, and craft brewers owe a LOT to homebrewers for supporting their art and business, and getting others to support them as well. I think the comments in the article are more of a thinkign out loud kind of thing, or an example of the unfairness which *might* occur in the future.

I doubt they actually think that homebrewers giving out 5 gallons of beer at a time to charity events is going to impact them more than a miniscule amount.

I can't see a charity system being an avenue for abuse. Charity auctions cost money, and you KNOW if the government sees any abuse, they will shut it down immediately.
 
I've started drinking MUCH more craft beer since I started homebrewing. I went from being primarily a whiskey and gin drinker with the occasional BMC product to going on a craft beer run literally every Friday, often another one Saturday, and during the week as well. I frequently order craft beer when I eat out as well, once or twice a week.

I fail to see how I'm a threat to the industry because of my homebrewing.

His group is typically on the defensive as home brewers try to expand their presence in the beer market
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Huh???? Right now there is no "presence in the beer market" because we are not allowed to sell. Zero. I don't see that changing any time soon, so I really don't see a threat there.
 
FTFA:
"His group is typically on the defensive as home brewers try to expand their presence in the beer market..."

Whoever wrote that line doesn't have a clue. Homebrewers are not "expanding their presence in the market" anywhere, as we are confined to personal, non-commercial use. If they meant that homebrew competes with other beers at the consumption end, yes, you could split hairs and make that argument. If I happen to be drinking a homebrew, that means I'm not drinking a commercial beer. But there is no "presence in the market" issue with homebrew. I suspect some journalistic liberties were taken with the true message of the brewers featured that article.

Like Hunter, I tend to try more craft beers now that I brew. I try styles I previously might not have taken the time (or spent the $$) to buy. If I am interested in brewing a new style, I like to purchase several commercial examples to see what I should expect. That only helps the craft beer market.

If anything, we homebrewers help build momentum for craft brewers. We are beer geeks, and are statistically more likely to seek out new beers and more likely to spread the word to friends, on social media, etc. I took a tour of Surly a few years back and the tour guide asked, "show of hands...how many homebrewers here?" Of the 40 or so people in the tour, there were close to a dozen hands in the air.

Many, if not most, craft brewers started out as homebrewers. I think they have more respect for homebrewers than that trollish article would suggest.
 
Page 2 expands on this in more detail.

For example, a new law expands the rights of home brewers to donate to a nonprofit group. The home brewers can now legally serve beer at events, such as competitions, exhibitions and tastings. But at the behest of McCormick’s group, the home brewers must be in a separate area away from commercial products.

“If you want to sell beer, you need to get a beer manufacturers’ license,” he said. “There has to be a bright line. That’s just good public policy.”
 
I feel I must agree with you fellas on all points. We have no market presence beyond buying ingredients for our brews. Not to mention all of their beers we buy for the bottles & research. So I don't think they seriously want to bite the hand that feeds them. Most likely misunderstanding on the part of the journalist.
 
“I really do feel strongly about that because allowing an unlimited number of tasting rooms across the state by a brewery could get out of hand in a number of ways.”

Heaven forbid we let the free market dictate what the appropriate number of tasting rooms is. :rolleyes:
 
No way jose..if anything it helps the craft beer world..is it a threat to industrial beer like BMC? HELL NO!! sam adams is a big company right? it has about 1% piece of the pie
 
There is a false premise behind any opinion that someone is "threatening my market." It is not "your" market, and you have no "right" to expect to be free from competition. All you can rightfully expect is that the competition rules should apply equally to all players, and should not favor one player over another. It's amazing how many capitalists don't believe in fair competition.

Brew on :mug:
 
To say that homebrewers don't have a presence in the market is a little disingenuous. Our presence, though, is as consumers who are decreasing their spending in a particular category.

I would buy more beer if I didn't make my own. I wouldn't have bought an extra 25 gallons this year, but I would have bought some more.

It's not direct competition, but DIY anything decreases demand for professionals.
 
Right now craft breweries are very kumbaya with one another and, in general, with the homebrewing community. As competition intensifies, this is sure to change.
 
During this week’s conference, McCormick addressed the political challenges that members of his trade group will face in the upcoming year. His group is typically on the defensive as home brewers try to expand their presence in the beer market and wholesalers fight to preserve the current “three-tier” distribution system, which tightly regulates brewers’ ability to sell directly to consumers and retailers.
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This sounds to me like they meant to say "CRAFT brewers", since they next talk about distribution.
 
Reminds me of the argument used during the depression to expand the commerce clause. Government set the price of corn (or wheat I forget) and how much a farmer could grow to send to market. He grew an excess to feed his family and animals. SCOTUS ruled that by not participating in the market he was in fact influencing the price by not buying from the market.

I could distantly see the same argument here. I brew so I don't buy (as much) from the store. We affect the market by not buying as much.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
The statement is very specific to California and the recently passed law allowing homebrew to be donated to charity events and be served at events where admission is charged (specifically to allow events like SoCal Homebrew Fest and NHC to occur without breaking the law). In that context I think his comments are completely in line. As you start to blur the line between homebrew and commercial there is a risk that breweries may start having to compete with people who aren't paying taxes and license fees to enter the marketplace. As it stands now, there is still a clear division between the two groups and the circumstances where homebrew can be "sold" are very limited, but if the current law is expanded further it could cause some issues.
 
MaxStout said:
FTFA:
"His group is typically on the defensive as home brewers try to expand their presence in the beer market..."

Whoever wrote that line doesn't have a clue. Homebrewers are not "expanding their presence in the market" anywhere, as we are confined to personal, non-commercial use. If they meant that homebrew competes with other beers at the consumption end, yes, you could split hairs and make that argument. If I happen to be drinking a homebrew, that means I'm not drinking a commercial beer. But there is no "presence in the market" issue with homebrew. I suspect some journalistic liberties were taken with the true message of the brewers featured that article.

Like Hunter, I tend to try more craft beers now that I brew. I try styles I previously might not have taken the time (or spent the $$) to buy. If I am interested in brewing a new style, I like to purchase several commercial examples to see what I should expect. That only helps the craft beer market.

If anything, we homebrewers help build momentum for craft brewers. We are beer geeks, and are statistically more likely to seek out new beers and more likely to spread the word to friends, on social media, etc. I took a tour of Surly a few years back and the tour guide asked, "show of hands...how many homebrewers here?" Of the 40 or so people in the tour, there were close to a dozen hands in the air.

Many, if not most, craft brewers started out as homebrewers. I think they have more respect for homebrewers than that trollish article would suggest.
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This pretty much sums up my view. The way I look at it, as home brewers it's not so much that we are taking away a market share, but rather we are reducing the market size by leaving it. Basically if we are brewing our own beer, we aren't buying theirs, unless it's something new we want to try or comes highly recommended for "research".
 
If you read the whole article, they're concerned that home brewers could act like a craft brewery; home brewers in California can now give beer to a charity (and get a tax break for it) and give their beer out at festivals and competitions, they're concerned that home brewers might be able to use loopholes or push for new laws that might let them sell their beer tax-free. It's not so much that home brewers are edging in on craft brewer's market share, it's that they're concerned that homebrewers could become tax-free craft brewers; it's pretty poorly written by someone who obviously has no clue what is going on.
 
evanmars said:
More like saying having bake sales is a threat.
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Much, much different.

Gary Glass's newest presentations have been stating that the AHA is estimating that in 2016 the number of home brewers in America is going to surpass the number of craft breweries.

Competition is getting tough, the # of breweries per person is getting pretty high in some areas and I'd expect some brewers to get desperate as the number of breweries continues to increase constantly.

Hop Union clearly sees us as a major source of increasing profit margins and they've invested in packaging line equipment JUST for home brewers. -We're going to have more bargaining power to get the best ingredients and information and products; we certainly spend far more than the average craft beer consumer every year on beer-related products.

We're a sizable market, for sure. Whether we're a "threat" or not depends upon your perspective.

We'll see what happens when we get to and beyond supported capacity in the # of craft breweries in the country.
 
I just added up how much beer I've brewed this year. It looks like I need to send InBev a check for $476.44 to compensate them for all the Bud Light I did not drink.
 
Bull. If anything they should realize that homebrewers are a means of inspiring others to get into craft beer. It adds customers to the craft beer market and builds appreciation for the hard work of brewing.

Sure, individually we don't buy as much but are we supplying many of our friends - and when we're not around to supply them then they'll go to the market. BMC-friendly homebrew is an entryway to get people interested in beers they would never ever try otherwise.

This is vital when craft takes up less than 10% of the market. It's more productive to go after a piece of the bigger pie than squabble over scraps.
 
This article is rubbish, and moreover it sounds like this McCormick character started out with good intentions for the craft industry, but when you look at how much money the beer industry is generating, and presumably his "take" for "lobbying" for the craft beer industry, makes me wonder if he is just another cog in the system.
 
biertourist said:
Much, much different.

Gary Glass's newest presentations have been stating that the AHA is estimating that in 2016 the number of home brewers in America is going to surpass the number of craft breweries

Hop Union clearly sees us as a major source of increasing profit margins and they've invested in packaging line equipment JUST for home brewers. -We're going to have more bargaining power to get the best ingredients and information and products; we certainly spend far more than the average craft beer consumer every year on beer-related products.
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Again, just rubbish.

There are more people in America that cook hamburgers than there are McDonald's restaurants.

Cattle farmers realize this, and they have started raising cows to sell just to the home cook.

Nonsensical.

It is not a 1:1 ratio, most homebrewers brew 5 gallons at a pop, and not everyday at that. Professional Brewers, I am willing to go out on a limb and say they brew more than that, and probably a few times a week.

And what is wrong with a brewer or 2 or 3 for every city/town/region, it's worked in Europe for over 500 years.
 
Ever notice that it is always the little guy who wants a true free market? Why is that? No reply needed, just think about it.
 
krackin said:
Ever notice that it is always the little guy who wants a true free market? Why is that? No reply needed, just think about it.
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As a "little guy" let me say, no I don't, thank you very much. I've seen how quickly the big boys will screw you if the law doesn't prevent them from doing so.
 
Mike_kever_kombi said:
This article is rubbish, and moreover it sounds like this McCormick character started out with good intentions for the craft industry, but when you look at how much money the beer industry is generating, and presumably his "take" for "lobbying" for the craft beer industry, makes me wonder if he is just another cog in the system.
Click to expand...

If you look at the actual quotes, the only one to do with homebrewing is one that I think we can all say is very sensible, the idea that if you sell your beer you should need a license and follow health and safety standards. The article writer has no clue what they are writing about, I don't know where they get the idea that home brewers are a threat to craft breweries because McCormick never says that. The vast majority of actual information and quotes is about preventing big beer from screwing over craft brewers. If you look at the CCBA website, it's pretty much what you would expect to see, advocacy for craft breweries, PR for craft breweries in the state, etc. Not a trace of anything demeaning to say about home brewers.
 
Lots of the small breweries around here sell home brew supplies. Sounds like a generalization. Some breweries have even offered me grains at wholesale prices.
 
Talgrath said:
If you look at the actual quotes, the only one to do with homebrewing is one that I think we can all say is very sensible, the idea that if you sell your beer you should need a license and follow health and safety standards. The article writer has no clue what they are writing about, I don't know where they get the idea that home brewers are a threat to craft breweries because McCormick never says that. The vast majority of actual information and quotes is about preventing big beer from screwing over craft brewers. If you look at the CCBA website, it's pretty much what you would expect to see, advocacy for craft breweries, PR for craft breweries in the state, etc. Not a trace of anything demeaning to say about home brewers.
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I completely agree about licensing and health/quality standards, but if you really want to do the read the actual quote game, retread the article. He says that:

“It’s a change of night and day from eight years ago. They (legislators) didn’t know who we are and what we were. "

“There are stakeholders who would love to see those privileges eroded or taken away,” McCormick said.

Talking about the 3 tier distribution system, which most would agree with, but then....

In the last session, lawmakers tightened a state statute from the 1950s that allowed small brewers to hold an unlimited number of licenses to open taprooms and tasting rooms.

This is for sub 60k barrels annually, so a small/micro/craft brewer.

“We felt that putting some type of cap on these duplicate licenses was in the best interest of the industry,” McCormick said. “I really do feel strongly about that because allowing an unlimited number of tasting rooms across the state by a brewery could get out of hand in a number of ways.”

Yes, it might actually allow smaller volume Brewers to compete on a level playing field with the big guys, by not having to rely on a distributor (owned by the big guys) to distribute your products

McCormick said. The association also is looking to extend the duplicate license law to breweries that produce more than 60,000 barrels.

The Big Boys
Who's looking out for craft brew here?


This has nothing to do with protecting craft beer as much as it does with protecting interests.

If you think anything else...

the Golden State grew by 20 percent in volume last year and contributed $5.5 billion to the state’s economy


During the latest election cycle, $2.4 million poured into candidates for state offices from the beer, wine and spirits industry.

I am all for craftbeer, in general, and supporting local Brewers and small businesses as a whole. However let's face it, if you have a 100 Brewers making 1 million a year or 10 Brewers making 10 million a year, it's still 100 million annually no matter how you slice it.

The fault lies in misrepresentation, you are not really trying to get the million for the hundred, but the 10 million for the 10 that "contribute" to your organization.

Just because you put lipstick on a pig doesn't make it a prom queen.
 
Talgrath said:
If you read the whole article, they're concerned that home brewers could act like a craft brewery; home brewers in California can now give beer to a charity (and get a tax break for it) and give their beer out at festivals and competitions, they're concerned that home brewers might be able to use loopholes or push for new laws that might let them sell their beer tax-free. It's not so much that home brewers are edging in on craft brewer's market share, it's that they're concerned that homebrewers could become tax-free craft brewers; it's pretty poorly written by someone who obviously has no clue what is going on.
Click to expand...

I found it interesting since I am pretty much "that guy". Of the just under 200 gallons I brewed this year almost half was donated to local charity events and sold for their benefit. It all started when friends/neighbors asked me to donate beer to their charity event after they were turned down by the local breweries. The local breweries get hit up pretty hard for beer donations and at some point they have to turn down requests. Understandable. So maybe the trade group is upset that home brewers are filling the void with donated beer rather than the charity groups buying their members beers? What gets me is the part of the law, that they wrote, where homebrew and commercial beer has to be seperated to "protect" the consumer. Gosh...that is something right out of the BMC playbook....I thought the craft beer industry was better than that.
 
biertourist said:
Gary Glass's newest presentations have been stating that the AHA is estimating that in 2016 the number of home brewers in America is going to surpass the number of craft breweries.
Click to expand...

This doesn't sound right. From the AHA's website:

Over 1.2 million people brew their own beer at home in the United States.
Click to expand...

I know there aren't that many breweries in the US.
 
My craft beer purchases in 2011 consisted of a 12 pack of fat tire every weekend and a few pints while out and about throughout the week. I started brewing and my first craft beer purchase was $80. Three weeks later I was back and it was $75. I have spent an exorbitant amount of money on craft beer since I started brewing. Some in trades, some in my belly, and some as gifts. The craft beer industry is 100% safe from me. My bank account, on the other hand, is not.
 
seefish said:
That would be like saying cooking at home is a threat to the restaurant industry...and really just a silly statement in general.
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This pretty much sums it up. No way are homebrewers affecting the commercial beer industry.
 
Homercidal said:
Perhaps he meant that the amount of homebrewed beer is going to equal the amount of craft brewed beer?
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Perhaps. That would make more sense, but would be pretty hard to quantify. I, for one, couldn't tell you how many gallons I brewed this year. It's well under the legal limit, but I don't keep track.
 
Talgrath said:
As a "little guy" let me say, no I don't, thank you very much. I've seen how quickly the big boys will screw you if the law doesn't prevent them from doing so.
Click to expand...


The big boys screw you because there's no such thing as a free market. The goal of becoming a big guy is so that you can start constraining and controlling the market; it's so that you can "capture" the market and keep it locked up.

A truly free market would be great for the little guy, if it actually existed. The problem is that it doesn't exist.

I agree with the underlying sentiment of your comment 100%, though. Laws need to prevent the big guys from "imprisoning" the market and making it not free so that small companies can compete freely upon their merits.


Adam
 
hunter_la5 said:
I've started drinking MUCH more craft beer since I started homebrewing. I went from being primarily a whiskey and gin drinker with the occasional BMC product to going on a craft beer run literally every Friday, often another one Saturday, and during the week as well. I frequently order craft beer when I eat out as well, once or twice a week.



I'm the exact opposite. When I first discovered beer (good beer) I went to craft beer store every week. Once I learned how to make my own, I quit buying beer all together. I will still buy my 2 Goose Island BCS when they come out, and if I'm out somewhere, I will buy a beer or two (being out is RARE though). I have spent less than $20 on commercial beer over the last 13 months.
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