I have the right equipment to do biab. 5 gallon kettle and a few buckets, one with a spigot. I was brought a biab kit for my birthday a few years ago and never actually got as far as making anything with it.If your only brewing a few times a year I'd stick to extract and steeping kits that you can get at your LHBS. Unless you don't have to purchase anything to go all grain.
I personally don't like the all grain pre milled kits. They don't mill good enough and who knows how old those milled kits are.
Does your LHBS have a mill? If so maybe they can order grain/mill for you . It's good to support your LHBS , however if they can't accommodate you then you'll have to go online. You may think your only going to brew a few times , but that could easily change.
Welcome to HBT
The question is whether the extra cost of buying kits is worth it compared to buying bulk grain and having to store it.Is this question about how good the recipes are?
OK thanksI guess I'm syaing if you are currently uncertain, do some kits. At some point if you start thinking "I need a boatload of Maris Otter at pennies per pound to continue this hobby economically", that's the time to actually do that.
Title says it all. I want to get into AG brewing and I'm wondering if buying the kits is worth the extra price over buying bulk grain.
I was thinking pt 1 vs 3There are probably 3 options here:
I have found that packaged all-grain kits can be a great starting place for a style, that you can then build off and tweak toward your preferences. One downside of all-grain kits is that they are build around a specific efficiency level (often in the 70% or 75% range) and volume. You might need to tweak amounts for your actual system.
- Purchasing pre-packaged all-grain kits
- Purchasing individual amounts of grain for a recipe (is this what you mean by "bulk"?)
- Purchasing grain in bulk (often just base grains and maybe a few lbs of common specialty grains)
Bulk grain purchases also may require investment into a grain mill ($100 for an imported mill). Some stores sell grain by the ounce, some may require purchasing 1 lb bags (5 lb and 10 lb bags are common too).
The question is whether the extra cost of buying kits is worth it compared to buying bulk grain and having to store it.
I've done a few extract kits and I don't really enjoy working with lme which is why I want to try all grain.
Do you have access to DME?I don't really enjoy working with lme
What type of packaging (jars, cans, pouches)? Does the packaging include 'packaged on' or 'best by' information?They offer 3 (light, Amber and dark) malts in 500 an 3000 gram packs (1.1 and 6.6lbs)
There are people here who use LME. Maybe they have some tips/tricks that could make using LME easier for you.I don't really enjoy working with lme
5 gallons should be closer to 50 bottles.For the number of brews per year, I doubt I will do that many. 40 bottles would probably last 10 weeks. That being said, they may well go faster if I have them on a shelf. That's the speed I go through shop brought beer.
LME has to be really fresh. You have to look at the date on the can. I was in a homebrew shop recently that had cans of LME that were over a year old. They’ll make beer, but I would avoid them.There are people here who use LME. Maybe they have some tips/tricks that could make using LME easier for you.
Agreed.LME has to be really fresh. You have to look at the date on the can. I was in a homebrew shop recently that had cans of LME that were over a year old. They’ll make beer, but I would avoid them.There are people here who use LME. Maybe they have some tips/tricks that could make using LME easier for you.I don't really enjoy working with lme
I’ve used up old liquid extract by trying to hide it in a beer with strong flavors like a coffee stout or just as additional extract to make gravity for a barleywine. I’ve made some acceptable beers with it but nothing that would win any awards.
DME is a little more reliable and produces better beer imo. Liqiuid extract often also has that extract “twang” flavor as people say. Hard to describe it, kind of combination of a metallic and sour flavor. Never ran into that flavor with DME.
I will say after getting used to all grain brews, every time you do an extract brew it’s a breeze. Much shorter brew day and just about everything is easier.
I measure DME, mostly for starters now, into a SS bowl away from heat and humidity. Then when I pour it into the pot I dip the entire bowl into the water to rinse it clean.Agreed.
But if OP has access to fresh LME, maybe someone here can help with ideas to make it easier for OP to work with.
Ah, this brought a smile to my face as I remember filling the trunk of the old Bonneville with Yuengling on my trips back to PA. That had to be at least a decade ago but would still the last time I got more than a case of single beer (kegs being the exception).... when was the last time you went to a beer distributor and bought 2 cases of the same beer.
In the past, I used a similar process for DME (currently, I add the DME to 140F-ish water in the kettle using an electric whisk). Others, in other topics, have mentioned using different approaches for DME: make a slurry (e.g. Briess 2014), avoid pouring dry ingredients into a steaming boiling kettle, ...I measure DME, mostly for starters now, into a SS bowl away from heat and humidity. Then when I pour it into the pot I dip the entire bowl into the water to rinse it clean.
I have used DME instead of sugar in LME kits. I just don't like working with the treacle like consistency of LME. Nor do I like the off taste (I can't describe it) of brews made with LME. I am a super taster, I can typically tell when meat is going off a day or two before people can smell it.... slightly off topic in a different direction
Do you have access to DME?
Some people find DME easier to work with. Others find LME easier to work with.
The grains? They come in little bags that have been taped shut like you find in butchers. I haven't and wont buy grain from them, I can't imagine it is very fresh. Most of their bred and butter money comes from selling beer/wine kits and equipment. They also do a lot of essences and distillation stuff even though it is illegal to distil here without a license which are impossible to get unless you are a business making gallons of spirits... still slightly off topic in a different different direction
What type of packaging (jars, cans, pouches)? Does the packaging include 'packaged on' or 'best by' information?
There are people here who use LME. Maybe they have some tips/tricks that could make using LME easier for you.
5 gallons... I forgot. The Imperial gallon is bigger than the US gallon. It is more like 6 gallons in US money. Also I go the spensive' route and buy beers 4 at a time on the way home at the end of each week. I will always pick up 2 Grolsch and 2 amber or pale ales depending on my fancy. I am collecting the Grolsch bottles for brewing. A Grolsch is £1.65 while 6 flip top bottles of the same size are £12. It's cheaper to buy the Grolsch than buy the bottles and I have to drink beer at the same time... What horrible times we live in.5 gallons should be closer to 50 bottles.
And someone asked in another forum when was the last time you went to a beer distributor and bought 2 cases of the same beer.
There is something to be said for variety. Someone mentioned earlier doing 1 gallon batches. I settled on 3 gallon batches long ago. 3 gallons works out to about 30 bottles, or a case plus a 6 pack.
I am the only one in my house who drinks beer. And it does stack up quickly with 5 gallon batches. 3 batches would be 6 cases of beer. For some here thats not alot of beer. For others its too much. Everybody is different.
Bwible mentioned about not picking up 2 cases of the same beer and it made me think, going to small batch brewing may be the way to go then I can have many flavours at once. I just need to find some where that sells 3 US gallon kits because most of the places I can find, sell by the bottle number rather than by the gallon and they are typically 40 and 60 bottle kits.If you're just brewing 3 or 4 times a year ("3 5 gallon batches") I'd probably stick with kits. It keeps it convenient and you don't have to store a lot of grain/hops that's not being brewed. If you don't have one, I do think buying a mill is worth it for the reasons @Jag75 mentioned. I like milling my own grain plus unmilled grains have a longer shelf life than milled.
Good to know. I'm not a super taster, so I'm out of suggestions.I am a super taster
Whether buying kits or bags of malt the quality of the malt is the important thing. Malthouses produce two types of malt, malt that makes ale and malt that doesn't. Both types of malt are on the market and both bags are stamped Brewers' Malt and the bags are labeled ale and lager malt. To know which malt is which, malthouses provide a malt spec sheet with every bag of malt, they are online. A malt spec sheet is used in brewing for determining the quality of malt before purchasing malt. A malt spec sheet provides E Caveat Emptor by letting the grain distiller who is a brewer that uses high modified, high protein, malt and the ale and lager brewer that uses higher quality, under modified, low protein, malt, which malt is which in a bag. If you are interested in buying malt from Gladfield, Weyermann, Crisp, Mecca, etc., etc., you'd go to the websites and find the malt spec sheet for the type of malt that you are interested in. That way you can buy the best malt. The important numbers to look for are modification, Beta Glucan content and percentage of protein because the higher the numbers the less suitable the malt is for producing ale and lager. Malt, 40 Kolbach and lower is under modified, malt. Protein content should be less than 10 percent. Under modified, low protein, malt is richer in enzyme content and in starch/sugar content than high modified, high protein, malt. If the numbers aren't listed on a malt spec sheet, chances are the malt failed an inspection, and no further testing was performed. Because of the high quality of the malt it is more expensive than high modified, malt. Soaking the high quality malt at a single temperature is a waste of money because less expensive, high modified, malt will produce the same final product, glucose is glucose. Under modified, low protein, malt should be used with the step mash and decoction brewing methods, where enzymes other than Alpha are activated. Malt containing high ppm - mg/L Beta Glucan should be avoided.Title says it all. I want to get into AG brewing and I'm wondering if buying the kits is worth the extra price over buying bulk grain.
Thanks
Oh wow, thanks. I will keep that in mind. Some one on reddit actually linked to me a local ish Miller that you plug in the recipe amounts and as long as they have the malt requested, they send it out pre milled. So I should be able to specify grains based on your information.Whether buying kits or bags of malt the quality of the malt is the important thing. Malthouses produce two types of malt, malt that makes ale and malt that doesn't. Both types of malt are on the market and both bags are stamped Brewers' Malt and the bags are labeled ale and lager malt. To know which malt is which, malthouses provide a malt spec sheet with every bag of malt, they are online. A malt spec sheet is used in brewing for determining the quality of malt before purchasing malt. A malt spec sheet provides E Caveat Emptor by letting the grain distiller who is a brewer that uses high modified, high protein, malt and the ale and lager brewer that uses higher quality, under modified, low protein, malt, which malt is which in a bag. If you are interested in buying malt from Gladfield, Weyermann, Crisp, Mecca, etc., etc., you'd go to the websites and find the malt spec sheet for the type of malt that you are interested in. That way you can buy the best malt. The important numbers to look for are modification, Beta Glucan content and percentage of protein because the higher the numbers the less suitable the malt is for producing ale and lager. Malt, 40 Kolbach and lower is under modified, malt. Protein content should be less than 10 percent. Under modified, low protein, malt is richer in enzyme content and in starch/sugar content than high modified, high protein, malt. If the numbers aren't listed on a malt spec sheet, chances are the malt failed an inspection, and no further testing was performed. Because of the high quality of the malt it is more expensive than high modified, malt. Soaking the high quality malt at a single temperature is a waste of money because less expensive, high modified, malt will produce the same final product, glucose is glucose. Under modified, low protein, malt should be used with the step mash and decoction brewing methods, where enzymes other than Alpha are activated. Malt containing high ppm - mg/L Beta Glucan should be avoided.
In a kit, the base malt can be high modified, to over modified, high protein, malt and you won't know it unless the malthouse is listed. So, if you decide on using kits make sure that you find out who produced the base malt before buying the kit.
A recipe that doesn't list the malthouse that produced the base malt is worthless because a malt spec sheet cannot be obtained. When you learn how to produce ale and lager recipes are a given they aren't needed, only a malt spec sheet is needed.
There are different ways of milling, make sure the milling is suitable for your system. Without specifications, their milling may be quite coarse, taylored to be used on (larger, commercial) micro craft brewery systems, not necessarily homebrewing systems.they send it out pre milled
It just says crushed or uncrushed on the site, I will send them an email thanks.There are different ways of milling, make sure the milling is suitable for your system. Without specifications, their milling may be quite coarse, taylored to be used on (larger, commercial) micro craft brewery systems, not necessarily homebrewing systems.
Coarseness vs. fineness of the crush being the most important variable. For traditional 3-vessel brewing (fly sparging) the crush needs to be much coarser than what's ideal for BIAB, where it could be almost powder. Automatic urn-type, single vessel brewing machines need a crush somewhere in between, especially when wort is recirculated.
For BIAB, using a fine weave mesh bag, such as the custom ones @wilserbrewer's sells, the milling can be done very finely, almost to powder. That helps with good/high mash efficiency. So tell them that: mill as finely as possible.It just says crushed or uncrushed on the site, I will send them an email thanks.
If I do biab should I ask for fine or coarse?
Definitely sometimesTitle says it all. I want to get into AG brewing and I'm wondering if buying the kits is worth the extra price over buying bulk grain.
Thanks
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