Anyone Ever Tried "Candi Syrups" Recipes?

[B-Dub]

I saw the post about the Duvel recipe question.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/duvel-clone-ever-tried-candi-syrups-recipe-259070/

Looking further I found nothing about any of the other recipes or how the sugar tastes in a beer.

Anyone have some experience with this new company?

http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html

BW

 

[SD-SLIM]

I saw the post about the Duvel recipe question.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/duvel-clone-ever-tried-candi-syrups-recipe-259070/

Looking further I found nothing about any of the other recipes or how the sugar tastes in a beer.

Anyone have some experience with this new company?

http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html

BW

I have not brewed with there stuff, but have seen some positive reviews...however when it comes to candi sugars, they are very simple to make, so I have stopped buying them.

 

[Revvy]

I think it's ridiculous to buy that stuff.

The Joke on us is, "Belgian candy sugar" is really just whatever sugar the monks and Belgian brewers bought in bulk, then inverted and boiled down to whatever darkness they wanted in their beer.

It's not a special magical sugar, grown for them by secret society of castrated elves specially for the monks to brew beer with. It was whatever was reasonably priced in bulk. More often than not it was beet, but it could have been cane, depending on what traders had for them...but "Belgian Candy Sugar" is really just "the sugar that the belgians happened to use." And to me, buying overpriced sugar is ridiculus, especially when you can make your own. I think that the original Belgian Monks would laugh at us silly American homebrewers who pay 3 times as much for it from the LHBS, when we can buy it from bulk food warehouse.

Graham Sanders on the aussie craft brewer radio first brought it up with one of those authors of Beligian Style books, can't recall who.

We've been discussing it for years.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/quick-interesting-read-dubbels-99971/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/candi-sugar-necessity-148786/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/candi-syrup-all-out-stock-128960/#post1445241

And many even argue that if you're just using "clear" cadi sugar or syrup, then just dump it directly in the kettle, since the sugar theoretically inverts itself during the boil. If you are using darker grades in your recipes, then inverting them with a little cream of tartar, citric acid, lemon juice or vinegar, and pre carmalizing them to the level you want is a good idea. There are "recipes" for making candi in both rock and syryp form. It's really easy. No harder than making Candy.

I think the original Belgian brewers would laugh if they knew how much we silly american homebrewrs actually pay for supposed "gourmet brewing sugar." They sure as heck wouldn't pay what we do.

 

[sfrisby]

I've used it in a westleveran 12 clone and is very good.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Candi sugar is the result from a specific way to process sugar; somewhat similar to rock candy.

Candi sugar is produced from a refined, nearly pure (99.7%+) sucrose solution under vacuum over several days up to three weeks per batch. It's not inverted, unless they do it differently in Belgium than in Germany, where my grandfather worked at a sugar factory. Dark candi sugar is produced by adding caramel color or caramelizing the sucrose solution directly, which is where some of the sucrose inverts "naturally" though the heating process.

The syrup is the waste product of this production process - it's the remaining syrup that doesn't crystallize.

Cooking up some sugar on the stove isn't going to produce the same results, but to which degree the flavor differences affect the final beer is, of course, another question.

Edit: it would be very unusual for Belgian candi sugar to be made from cane sugar, since sugar beets are one of the major crops of west-central Europe.

 

[Revvy]

Belgian Candi Sugar

This is an invert sugar, amber in color and chunky in texture, made by breaking down white cane or beer sugar (sucrose) into glucose and fructose with the use of water, heat, and acid.

Candi sugar is a Belgian sugar commonly used in brewing, especially in stronger, Belgian beers such as dubbel and tripel. Chemically, it is an invert sugar: one that has been converted from sucrose to a mixture of fructose and glucose by heating with water and some acid (usually citric acid). It is used to boost the alcohol content without adding extra body to the beer, and without forcing the yeast to produce invertase.

Also used as a priming sugar, to aid in bottle-conditioning and carbonation, with the same benefits as listed above.

It may be different in Germany than Beligium, but I'm sure the monks who originally made it didn't have any vacuum equipment.

And I did say usually it was Beet sugar, but there have been exceptions. Basically it's purely been about economics, what sugar was available and cheap to invert.

 

[Revvy]

This article is really good. http://sciencebrewer.com/2010/04/10/homemade-belgian-candi-sugar/

Homemade Belgian Candi Sugar

All homebrewers brewing abbey beers know that authentic Belgian candi sugar or syrup is a key ingredient. Unfortunately homebrew supply stores capitalize on this commodity and sell Belgian candi sugar or “rocks” at inflated prices. This item is no different from invert sugar, or sucrose (table sugar) that has been turned into fructose and glucose and subsequently crystallized.

For those interested in the science of this process, sucrose is a fructose and glucose molecule linked by an ether bond between the C1 carbon on the glucosyl subunit and the C2 carbon of the fructosyl subunit. Heat in the presence of an acid breaks this bond and produces the two separate carbohydrates. The name “invert sugar” originates from the ability of plane polarized light form a polarimeter to switch from right to right to left when it passes through the final substance.

......................

While I do not claim to be a trappist monk, I refuse to buy this stuff at my LHBS and decided to make this at home (see pictures below) for my Raspberry Dubbel Trouble ale. Again, I took a page from Radical Brewing on the process and used lemon juice as my acid. Some brewers use citric acid as well.

Dissolved 1 lb of sugar in about two cups of water.
Added 1 Tbs of lemon juice.
Heated on high until sugar dissolved.
Continued to heat on high heat to evaporate and reduce the sugary liquid.
After 30 minutes, or when solution becomes really thick begin to watch it.
Turn off heat when you reach the desired color and add SLOWLY to wort or cool to turn into the rocks that we all come to pay too much money for.


The key here is watching and waiting. As you can see the time from when the sugar turned pale to amber was about 1-2 minutes. For darker syrups you will need to heat longer. Tasting the final product revealed caramel sweetness and no lemon indicating the chemical reaction went to completion. Be careful if you add this directly to your wort as the temp of the sugar is nearly 300°F and produces an instant frothing (see picture below). Add it slowly. In the picture below, I am adding the invert sugar to my Raspberry Dubbel Trouble.

 

[ArcaneXor]

It may be different in Germany than Beligium, but I'm sure the monks who originally made it didn't have any vacuum equipment.

And I did say usually it was Beet sugar, but there have been exceptions. Basically it's purely been about economics, what sugar was available and cheap to invert.

Candi sugar dates back to the 9th century and was produced in parts of Arabia for medicinal purposes. Monks didn't use it for brewing until much later.

The vacuum process wasn't used until the 1960s - it apparently allows the crystals to grow much larger.

The main consumer use for candi sugars in Europe today is to sweeten tea.

 

[Revvy]

When I googled "German Candi Sugar" you definitely get what Arcane is talking about, but the dfinition of it is ROCK Candy Sugar."

I'm sure it would be great to use in brewing, but it's not what is referred to as 'Belgian Candi Sugar" which even Mosier in Radical Brewing calls an invert and recommends making it as posted above. Sugar, boiling and an acid.

 

[Seven]

I'm a Belgian brewing noob but after brewing my first dubbel just two days ago I must say that I am very interested in learning more about brewing this style of beer. I got the "Brew like a monk" book and will be reading that. I'll also be watching this thread for info about homemade candi sugars.

 

[Revvy]

Now that I've been reading about the German stuff I really want to use Kandiszucker in a beer, like I've used Jaggery, Chinese, turbinado, and other raw sugars. There's some Polish and German markets in the Detroit area, I wonder if they carry any?

 

[ArcaneXor]

My brain hurts from trying to read a bunch of dutch web sites on the subject. From what I gather, Belgian, German and Dutch candi sugars indeed taste slightly differently (one source said specifically that Belgian candi sugars are more flavorful and result in better beers than their Dutch equivalent), but all references indicate that they use a sucrose solution that is only partially inverted by heating, without acid additions. One homebrewer references the "quick boil" method with acid as an approximate substitute, but another one says specifically that it's not necessary.

For what it's worth.

 

[Revvy]

Funny, it almost sounds to me from my reading that the German version would be more complex and flavorful. I want some just to suck on. Let alone make beer with.

 

[sfrisby]

Revvy, how much did the 1lb sugar and two cups water yield after boiling?

 

[FoundlingOfDollar]

http://www.candisyrup.com/recipes.html

BW

You sir, are my hero. I have been looking for a Maredsous 10 (my absolute favorite beer) clone for quite a while without success. These guys have at least given me a starting point!

 

[Seven]

Here's another candi sugar link: http://joshthebrewmaster.wordpress.com/2010/11/27/how-to-make-belgian-candi-sugar/

 

[B-Dub]

Personally I was just wondering what folks think of this new company.

I for one will stick with Dark Candi syrups because they are really what the monks use and have the flavor profile I want.

The Dark Candi syrups are NOT the leftovers from sugar making and are used in baking and food processing, worldwide.

This was really a post to find out how people like the beers made with this new sugar or their recipes, not to argue, once again, about if you think it is worth buying it or not.

Please move your opinions about homemade syrups to one of the many OTHER threads that have debated this to death.

This is the syrup I endorse, use and love.
http://www.darkcandi.com/
http://morebeer.com/view_product/8783/102195/Belgian_Candi_Syrup_DARK2

Respectfully,
BW

 

[sfrisby]

Bdub,
I have one more pouch of D-180 that I will open to prime a batch in about a month. After reading this thread, I am going to try making a batch and tasting the two side by side. If it's even close, it would be nice to save some money. $5 a lb adds up after awhile.

 

[Gremlyn]

I have purchased some candi syrup (from Candi Syrup, Inc) for a dubbel I plan on doing. I tried making my own last time, and though it tasted good, I didn't detect much in the final beer and the stuff I bought is way more complex (and actually tastes like some of the flavours I have picked out in beers like Delerium Noel). Revvy, et al are more than welcome to attempt to make candi syrup at home, just leaves more of the real stuff for me

 

[B-Dub]

If it's even close, it would be nice to save some money. $5 a lb adds up after awhile.

I hear you there. For me if you: divide the cost by the enjoyment, and multiply by the number of bottles= worth it!

Really we are talking about spending $12 on 2 pounds of the real thing and you make 24 750ml bottles that is only .50 cents per bottle you added to make a really good beer. Think one less bottle of beer from BevMo to make 24 bottles that much better or just different.

For what it is worth I think great Belgian esque beers can be made without ANY syrup. Although I love the flavor the D2 gives a Dark Strong.

Really it comes down to what the brewer wants from the beer.

BW

 

[frazier]

This is the recipe I use, from King Brian's recipe for Caramel Amber. Works great, it uses DAP to potentiate the reaction, as opposed to lemon juice.

 

[ArcaneXor]

The Dark Candi syrups are NOT the leftovers from sugar making and are used in baking and food processing, worldwide.

Yes they are: Straight from Dark Candi Inc.:

CandI syrup is a liquid obtained as a by-product of the candi sugar production.

To address your other questions, Dark Candi seems to use heat to partially invert their imported sugars, whereas Candi Syrup seems to use U.S. sugar that is more highly processed to increase the percentage of invert sugars and adjust the pH of the product. They also use date sugar in their darker products. Both have the same pppg. I have used Dark Candi syrups and was very happy with them, and am planning on using Candi Syrup's 180 product soon.

I can't comment on the recipes on the site.

 

[B-Dub]

From the D2:

Sugar syrup obtained from repeated heating and cooling of beet sugar. Intense caramel flavor
and color.

True they are made from candi sugar production, not from processing raw sugar like molasses. That is more along the line of what I meant.

When making candi sugar pure white beet sugar is used as the base to produce candi syrup.

Date sugar is just dried dates.

BW