Another water calculations question

[wentsj28]

Hello everyone,

I know a 1,000 posts have already been started about this subject, but I feel like my question is an easy answer, I just don't have it, and I can't sift through enough of this to find it.

I'm going to brew a beer that is 12 lbs. of grain BIAB style. I would calculate how much water I will need for the whole brew. The way I see it, I won't need more water for sparge, or for mash out, since I can adjust temperatures with my kettle.

That being said, since I expect to lose 1 gallon of water due to boil off, and about another gallon due to waste and deadspace in my kettle, and since I want to have a final batch of approximately 5 gallons, should I just fill my kettle with 7.5 gallons of water, and rock it?

Any help would be great. HomeBrewTalk.com hasn't failed me yet!

 

[enkamania]

Here is a calculator you can use

http://www.simplebiabcalculator.com/

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Use my calculator below. Assuming my default absorption rates, .5 gallons of losses to trub and fermenter, 1 Gallon boil off and 2 oz of hops.
You should start with 7.53 gallons @68f, or 7.71 gallons @ 160.5 f (strike temp)

 

[TexasWine]

And make sure your kettle can hold 7.53 gallons plus the grain! Almost forgot that little tid bit this weekend.

 

[wentsj28]

Use my calculator below. Assuming my default absorption rates, .5 gallons of losses to trub and fermenter, 1 Gallon boil off and 2 oz of hops.
You should start with 7.53 gallons @68f, or 7.71 gallons @ 160.5 f (strike temp)

So, then no sparge or mash out additional water? Just pull my bag out, let it drain? Should I squeeze the bag, and if so lightly or giver hell?

 

[wentsj28]

Use my calculator below. Assuming my default absorption rates, .5 gallons of losses to trub and fermenter, 1 Gallon boil off and 2 oz of hops.
You should start with 7.53 gallons @68f, or 7.71 gallons @ 160.5 f (strike temp)

So, then no sparge or mash out additional water? Just pull my bag out, let it drain? Should I squeeze the bag, and if so lightly or giver hell?

 

[wilserbrewer]

should I just fill my kettle with 7.5 gallons of water, and rock it?

Sure, nothing wrong with trying that!
If your a half gallon short you can either top up with bottled water, or enjoy less quantity of a stronger beer.

My issue with calculators is that they all make assumptions regarding boil off, grain absorption, loss to trub yeast cake etc.

Fwiw, if I were to shoot from the hip here I'd be tempted to guess 8 gallons rather than 7.5.
Insert disclaimer here.

Most importantly, mark a stick or your brew spoon with volumes so you are not flying blind and have an idea where your heading.



Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[wentsj28]

Use my calculator below. Assuming my default absorption rates, .5 gallons of losses to trub and fermenter, 1 Gallon boil off and 2 oz of hops.
You should start with 7.53 gallons @68f, or 7.71 gallons @ 160.5 f (strike temp)

So, then no sparge or mash out additional water? Just pull my bag out, let it drain? Should I squeeze the bag, and if so lightly or giver hell?

 

[wentsj28]

Not sure why that posted 3 times. But my question is still valid!

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Play with the calculator. 7.53 was the total volume required. If you can fit it plus the grains (mash volume on my calculator) then go for full volume if you want.

Squeeze if you want, if you don't though then change the grain absorption to .1 gal/lb.

Can sparge if you want to, theres an input to adjust the sparge volume and will change the volumes and strike temp.

 

[copper2hopper]

I just spent all day calculating this very topic man! And here's what I came up with. Doing a no sparge BIAB method you'll want to add 20-25% more grain to the recipe so you don't mess with the gravities and miss your marks. (this is per John Palmer's Skip the Sparge article). So add 20-25% more grain for each of your ingredients in the grain bill. In your case with 12lbs of grain you'll up it to 15lbs if you go by the 25% margin. Then calculate the amount of strike water you'll need. If you want to have a 5 gallon batch and you loose about 1 gallon with boil off with your system then you'll of course need to start with preboil of 6....SO... Average grain absorption is .125 gallons per pound of grain. So if you have 15lbs of grain multiply that times .125 which equals 1.875 gallons of water you'll loose. So add the 1.875 so the pre boil amount of 6 and that gives 7.875 gallons you should start with for a no sparge BIAB method. If you plan on squeezing which I always do then I would adjust for that and it looks like you mentally/luckily did by guesstimating starting with 7.5 gallons. So yeah rock that out and you should be spot man. I have not tested this calculation yet however plan on it this Sunday with the Zombie Dust Clone Recipe. I'll try to remember to repost to let you know how it goes. Good luck!'

 

[pricelessbrewing]

That 20-25% thing is silly. Both biab with sparge, and full volume biab has no issues with efficiency. If you know your efficiency, you shouldn't have to adjust your grain bill.

If you're getting 50% efficiency, then you have issues.

 

[copper2hopper]

I'm hovering around 65-70% mash efficiency and want 80. So I figured I'd give this a shot and also adjust my crush a lot finer

 

[TexasWine]

Did the Zombie Dust this weekend with 78% efficiency.

 

[copper2hopper]

Here's that link for skip the sparge

http://byo.com/stories/item/1375-skip-the-sparge

It's a good read and makes sense to me.

 

[redwing_al]

Use my calculator below. Assuming my default absorption rates, .5 gallons of losses to trub and fermenter, 1 Gallon boil off and 2 oz of hops.
You should start with 7.53 gallons @68f, or 7.71 gallons @ 160.5 f (strike temp)

THANK YOU FOR YOUR CALCULATOR! :rockin: it seems to have matched some of my own calculations. However, it lead me to another question. Below are my results:

Results followed by questions

Total water needed 8.27 Gallons
10.121 Inches high
Does this mean I start heating my mash water with 8.27G (10.121")


10.121 Inches high Strike water volume (temp. adjusted at strike temp)8.46 Gallons 10.355 Inches high

Volume of mash with grains (temp. adjusted at mash temp)10.2 Gallons 12.441 Inches high

I assume this is how much water the kettle should hold with my grain bill in it?

Pre boil (temp. adjusted at 212F)7.50 Gallons 9.1848 Inches high

What does this mean if my "total water needed is 8.27G?


I guess I dont understand the difference between 'Preboil', 'Strike water needed' and 'total water needed'?

maybe I've been doing it all wrong all along?!

 

[pricelessbrewing]

No worries, total water needed is just that. ALL the water required. If you're doing full volume mash, then it's also your strike volume. This volume is calculated at 68F.


Strike water volume @ strike temp, for full volume the only difference is the thermal expansiom of the water is accounted for at strike temperature.

Mash volume includes your grains volume.

Pre boil would be (strike water volume - grain loss due to absorption + sparging volume if applicable) then that volume is temperature adjusted to thermal expansion at boil (212F)

Was mainly intended for less than full volume mashes, you'll see a lot bigger changes between them if you put in a sparging volume of 2 gallons or so.

 

[wentsj28]

Ok. So here's another question. If I decide to sparge, how do I do that with a BIAB method? Pull grains out, wait for them to drain, pour on sparge water?

 

[pricelessbrewing]

I have to sparge if I want to do a 5gallon batch. What I do is maximize my mash volume to about .3 gallon of my pot size. Then after the mash I pull the bag, let it drain a bit then when it slows down I put it in some nested 4 gallon buckets, one has drainage holes drilled in. Then do a pourover sparge.

I haven't played with dunk sparges yet, but will probably look into that next.

 

[nutty_gnome]

I do 5.5 gallon batches of BIAB in a 10 gallon kettle using 12 lbs opf grain. If I start with 8 gallons of heated mash water, it takes up a little over 9 gallons of space. I get around 70% eff. at 12 pounds of grain. Try 8 gallons to start and you'll learn how your system works for the next time. Do not sparge, just drain or squeeze and add those runnings to the kettle. Don't worry, you'll make beer and learn in the process.

 

[doug293cz]

Ok. So here's another question. If I decide to sparge, how do I do that with a BIAB method? Pull grains out, wait for them to drain, pour on sparge water?

You can do a pour sparge in a separate vessel like priceless, or alternately by suspending the bag in a basket strainer (or some other way) above the BK/MT and pouring water over the bag.

You can also dunk sparge by dipping the bag in water in a separate vessel.

If you intend to squeeze the bag, it's more effective to do it prior to sparging, as well as after sparging. You can sparge with either hot or cold water without much/any difference in efficiency. If the sparge water is over 170 deg F, you need to be sure the pH is less than 6 to avoid tannin extraction.

Brew on

 

[wentsj28]

So, if I was going to sparge, would I calculate my mash water to be 1.5x12 which is 18, or 4.5 gallons. Conduct my mash, remove my bag, give it a squeeze, then see where I am at as far water. Then sparge until I have the correct amount of preboil volume?

 

[wilserbrewer]

So, if I was going to sparge, would I calculate my mash water to be 1.5x12 which is 18, or 4.5 gallons. Conduct my mash, remove my bag, give it a squeeze, then see where I am at as far water. Then sparge until I have the correct amount of preboil volume?

Yes, yes!

Not sure what your calculating, but you really don't need to calculate at all if you don't want to....

A simple approach is to mash in with your batch size, then sparge to pre boil volume. So your sparge is actually absorption, plus boil off, plus any other losses.

This is actually my preferred method, mash in a little short of total water, then sparge to volume. It's kinda foolproof...

 

[wentsj28]

Thanks! I think I will try your method. I know home brewing can have a lot of exact calculations so that you can recreate beers, but to be honest, I just want to make sure I make good beer. I rarely brew the same beers more than once, and when I do, I don't need it to be exactly the same as it was before. Variety is the spice of life!

 

[TexasWine]

So, if I was going to sparge, would I calculate my mash water to be 1.5x12 which is 18, or 4.5 gallons. Conduct my mash, remove my bag, give it a squeeze, then see where I am at as far water. Then sparge until I have the correct amount of preboil volume?

You're a quick study! Best to keep it simple.

One small thing to keep in mind that I just figured out. If you get to the point where you add salts/additives (like chalk, gypsum, etc) to your water before the mash, you'll need a defined amount of water you're starting with so you know how much of each additive to use to hit the correct concentration.

I just started doing this and I go conservative and start with a gallon or two more than I think I'll need and put my salts in the entire amount. If I have some water left over after the sparge then no big deal.

 

[nutty_gnome]

If you need more reassurance about your numbers.... take a look at any of the Brewer's Best BIAB kit instructions. THeir BIAB line is for brewers (new or not) who want to get into all grain. So their kit instructions have been prepared with that in mind - they spell out how much water to use when and where. In the case of the brown porter recipe linked below - They tell you to mash in with 6.25gals of water for a 12 pound recipe and then to rinse (dunk-sparge) in an extra gallon of warm clean water after the mash and then add that gallon plus the bag drippings to the kettle. See here:
http://www.brewersbestkits.com/pdf/1092 2014 BIAB Brown Porter Recipe.pdf

BIAB is supposed to be easy and simple; not complicated and full of math. And you are not going to get everything right on your first try... so just go for it and learn from the process. Record what you do as you go so that you can go back and see where things went right and wrong. Be sure to have some clean, dechorinated water on hand if you need to top up your expected volume -- or just don't worry about it. In any case, you will make beer.

PS - the real worry isn't about the mash and boil... its your yeast pitch, sanitation, and the ability to maintain proper fermentation temps. Those are the major bugaboo's in homebrewing.