Another "It's not fermenting" question....

[MagicMatt]

So before I get into, I already "RDWHAHB".

TLDR: It's now been 28 hours and not a sign of fermentation! I used slightly old yeast (10/1/14) but used a stir plate for a 1.1L 1.040 starter, so this shouldn't be an issue. All of the calculators I've used said this would give me at least 140 billion cells. But I've got no activity.

More info:
I brewed yesterday (Mocha Oatmeal Stout, OG 1.058). The yeast I used (British Ale II - Wyeast 1335) was dated 10/14. I didn't look at the date until I got home, and when I called the LHBS to see if they had any newer ones I could exchange, he told me they had 3 others but all had the same date as the one I had. Since I'm using a starter, I went ahead and used it anyway.

The starter consisted of 1L water and 4oz. DME, yeast pitched into starter at 70°F. It had a good 24 hours on the stir plate prior to pitching into the carboy. In hindsight I should have made a bigger starter, but plugging in the yeast date into my recipe in Beersmith tells me the yeast were around 25% viable and a starter size of 1L should still get the count up to around 160 billion cells (it says 220 billion needed). So if this calculation is correct, I should still have pitched more yeast into my brew than if I just pitched straight from a new 100 billion cell smack pack - i.e. I should be fine.

But this doesn't seem to be the case! It's the first brew I've done that I haven't seen any activity withing 16 hours. Just about everything I read says wait 36 hours and take a gravity reading, but I'm now 90% confident that this isn't going to take off as-is. I did pitch at slightly lower temp than I would have liked (around 60°F) and forgot to aerate the carboy prior to pitching, so this morning I attributed those foul-ups for the slow start. I gave it a good shake for 30 seconds to aerate it. That was 10 hours ago now, and still not a bubble. It's currently sitting at 66°F.


So aside from waiting any longer, what are my options now? What would you do in this situation? I'll take a gravity reading shortly, but how long can the wort sit there without pitching active yeast before things start to go sour?

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

My last two brews took over 30 hours before there was a single blip from the air lock. I've had some that took over 48 hours. Especially when you start at the low end of the fermentation temp, it takes a while. Don't warm it up anymore. Patience, grasshopper (beats RDW etc, etc).

 

[olotti]

Relax. My last few beers I used 05 and cooled to a lower temp low 60's since it happens fast here with the cold mich weather and it just took a day or two to get going. Let it warm on its own and it'll get to where you need it to be just takes a little longer.

 

[DocScott]

Also remember that the only way to know that it isn't fermenting is to check the gravity. Airlock bubbles, or the lack thereof, is not always a great measuring stick. Give it another day or so then open and check gravity.

Now, if it really didn't start, I would get new yeast, make a starter and pitch it at high krausen.

 

[andy6026]

Probably a leak in the bucket lid. I know it can be hard, but you really should just wait 3 weeks and then check the FG before bottling. If you're really obsessively worried then take a gravity reading, but I'd wait at least 72 hours.

 

[olotti]

Also wanted to add I always just wait and take a gravity reading at day 10 and 14 that way I feel I know it's had a chance to be done and do cleanup duty so I say wait until day 10 check your gravity and go from there.

 

[MagicMatt]

Thanks for the replies guys. It's now been 34 hours and still nothing. Temp is at 67°F.

I understand how usually the whole "it can take up to 72 hours" thing is good advice for newer brewers. I don't consider myself a pro by any standards, but I'd like to believe I'm past the noob status at this point. And from everything I'm reading, there should be no question when using a starter - it should be able to take even 100 cells into the 140-150 billion range. I should have SOMETHING happening by now.

It's not just the lack of bubbles that has me worried. I ferment in a carboy (don't use buckets), so I have a clear view of what's going on inside - which is absolutely nothing. Usually by this point I'm either blowing off or at least have a good 2-3" of krausen. I've had zero activity.

I'll wait until tomorrow and check the gravity. If it hasn't moved from the OG then I guess I'll pitch some US05 or Nottingham. I wouldn't trust making another starter with another pack of the same yeast (with the same MFG date).

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

Did you see any activity in the starter? I've put year old yeast in a starter and ended up fine. There's always the off chance you got some dead yeast. It may have been frozen at some point. Or it may just be old and need some time to gather up steam. Either way, still give it 72 hours and then check the gravity. If it hasn't budged, you can repitch with no problem.

 

[Subdivisions]

Give it another day or two. I've heard of the 1335 yeast being kind of a slow starter

 

[MagicMatt]

Did you see any activity in the starter?

No, but I never do because I use a stir plate. I always brew on Saturdays, so I create my starter around 4-5pm on Friday and let it go overnight. There's never any noticeable difference in the morning (aside from maybe a slightly lighter color than the night previous). I've never had an issue with a starter not working within 12 hours.

Give it another day or two. I've heard of the 1335 yeast being kind of a slow starter.

I just used this exact same yeast on the exact same beer just 3 months ago. Same MFG date and all. Last time it took off just as expected, within 12 hours. I know it's a bit older now, but using a starter is supposed to negate the effects of old yeast by stimulating new growth.


Anyway, I just got a text from the GF and she said it's now bubbling through the blow off at a rate of about 1 bubble per 5 seconds. So it sounds like fermentation has finally begun. I'll be damned. I had just went this morning and bought 2 packs of Safale S-04.

So now my question is do I just leave the beer alone and let it (hopefully) ferment out with the 1335 yeast, or do I add a pack of the S-04 anyway and help it along quicker? I'm just worried that I've severely under pitched and fermentation will stall.

 

[Calder]

Old yeast may not have taken off in the starter in 24 hours. Might have needed more time. Then you added it to the 5 gallon batch at a cold temperature. Probably stuned it a little with the cold, and low yeast count could take a while to start.

I bet it's working by morning.